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My dad's 40s Norman of England

Old 04-24-22, 03:37 PM
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lelila
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My dad's 40s Norman of England

Hello. I was recently tasked with cleaning out my father's garage. In it was my father's Norman of England 3 speed that he bought as a young kid right after WWII. He once told me it was called 'fire and ice" because of the flame and icicles paint.

While cleaning up the garage, we found three more vintage bikes. A royal scot and two others I don't even know what they are. All four bikes are in seriously good condition having been kept indoors for literally decades.

First question: Was the bike really called "Fire and Ice"?
Second question: Are there people out there that can fix these bikes - like a new chain and tubes and tires? Or are they so old, no one has the parts or tools for them anymore?
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Old 04-24-22, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lelila View Post
Hello. I was recently tasked with cleaning out my father's garage. In it was my father's Norman of England 3 speed that he bought as a young kid right after WWII. He once told me it was called 'fire and ice" because of the flame and icicles paint.

While cleaning up the garage, we found three more vintage bikes. A royal scot and two others I don't even know what they are. All four bikes are in seriously good condition having been kept indoors for literally decades.

First question: Was the bike really called "Fire and Ice"?
Second question: Are there people out there that can fix these bikes - like a new chain and tubes and tires? Or are they so old, no one has the parts or tools for them anymore?
Wow, welcome aboard, glad you found us, we live for this stuff.

There is somebody here that will have input, likely plenty of it. No bike is too old, maybe just more challenging.

I would encourage you to be careful, no cleanup or futzing until we get pics and have a look.

You will need 5 posts X 2 days for 10 posts so you can post pics, in the meantime you can try to upload some to your homepage album that may get moved here

We need good ones and plenty of them, chain side full on, closeups, components, decals, etc.

Respond to any and all posts here and comment on any others to get the posts.
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Old 04-24-22, 06:48 PM
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Fire and Ice was a famous poem by Robert Frost, which was in a Pulitzer winning book and was likely first published in England. I could see Norman scooping the name for an illustrious 3 speed.
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Old 04-24-22, 06:53 PM
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Here is a good resource

For the love of English 3 speeds...

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Old 04-24-22, 06:54 PM
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Give posting some pictures a go anyway. Someone today posted questions about their dad's Bates and was able to attach two pictures to it anyway for some reason. I thought perhaps the 10 post requirement got turned off for this sub-forum as it is a common place for new members to need to post pictures.
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Old 04-24-22, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
Give posting some pictures a go anyway. Someone today posted questions about their dad's Bates and was able to attach two pictures to it anyway for some reason. I thought perhaps the 10 post requirement got turned off for this sub-forum as it is a common place for new members to need to post pictures.
I believe the 10 post requirement is only turned off if you become a paid member. (about $20 per year as I recall.)
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Old 04-24-22, 07:49 PM
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I believe you are correct. I didn't see the yellow jersey by her username and wasn't used to new members buying a paid membership that quickly.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:02 AM
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Thank you for letting me know. I don't know what a homepage album is but I'll look around and figure it out.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Fire and Ice was a famous poem by Robert Frost, which was in a Pulitzer winning book and was likely first published in England. I could see Norman scooping the name for an illustrious 3 speed.
Honestly, I think my dad made it up but who knows. He told my brother that all the bikes back in the early 40s were black because of the war. I don't know why. But when my dad went to the bike shop there was only one that wasn't black and he bought it. The bike shop name is still on the bike. Tony's Bike Shop in Ronkonkama LI.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mirfi View Post
Here is a good resource
Thank you! I was reading in that place for a while before I decided to post.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Wow, welcome aboard, glad you found us, we live for this stuff.

There is somebody here that will have input, likely plenty of it. No bike is too old, maybe just more challenging.

I would encourage you to be careful, no cleanup or futzing until we get pics and have a look.

You will need 5 posts X 2 days for 10 posts so you can post pics, in the meantime you can try to upload some to your homepage album that may get moved here

We need good ones and plenty of them, chain side full on, closeups, components, decals, etc.

Respond to any and all posts here and comment on any others to get the posts.
The bike is in complete working order and my dad rode it every day until two years ago. He replaced the seat about 15 years ago. The original seat had the fire and icicles on it too and was much narrower. So I know there are places that have compatible parts but I don't know about thinks like wheels. Do they change after 70 years?
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Old 04-25-22, 11:33 AM
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Fire and Ice

By Robert Frost
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.


Anyway, glad you found us. As someone mentioned at the beginning, this is right in our collective wheelhouse. You'll get all of the advice you care to haul away. Most of it will probably even be good advice.

Was there a green bike as well? This is my single favorite Frost poem, especially at this time of year, when the first green leaves are just few weeks away:



Nothing Gold Can Stay

By Robert Frost
Nature’s first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.
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Last edited by jonwvara; 04-25-22 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 04-25-22, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lelila View Post
Thank you for letting me know. I don't know what a homepage album is but I'll look around and figure it out.
https://www.bikeforums.net/members/lelila-553365.html
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Old 04-25-22, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lelila View Post
The bike is in complete working order and my dad rode it every day until two years ago. He replaced the seat about 15 years ago. The original seat had the fire and icicles on it too and was much narrower. So I know there are places that have compatible parts but I don't know about thinks like wheels. Do they change after 70 years?
They do and can be a bit challenging as they used an odd size but can usually be sorted out, you really don't want to change anything as anything this old is best kept original as possible.
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Old 04-25-22, 12:30 PM
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Norman made a whole range of bikes from the heavy duty utilitarian ones to lightweight bikes with Reynolds tubing. The higher end ones had pretty fabulous decals. Fire and Ice decals sounds like fun-- I'd like to see that.
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Old 04-25-22, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
They do and can be a bit challenging as they used an odd size but can usually be sorted out, you really don't want to change anything as anything this old is best kept original as possible.
Most parts can be sourced for English bicycles.

As far as Norman goes, there are a few on here. I think RHM has some. I've seen a Norman Conquest in person, and a Norman Tourist. That said, I've never heard of a Fire and Ice.
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Old 04-25-22, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gna View Post
Most parts can be sourced for English bicycles.

As far as Norman goes, there are a few on here. I think RHM has some. I've seen a Norman Conquest in person, and a Norman Tourist. That said, I've never heard of a Fire and Ice.
Yep, true enough but rims, wheels and tires can be a pita if you want original in good shape, etc.

Ms. merziac's Call the Midwife bike, we have two of these, wish they were older.
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Old 04-26-22, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post


Anyway, glad you found us. As someone mentioned at the beginning, this is right in our collective wheelhouse. You'll get all of the advice you care to haul away. Most of it will probably even be good advice.

Was there a green bike as well? This is my single favorite Frost poem, especially at this time of year, when the first green leaves are just few weeks away:

Holy Cow how did you know about the green bike? There is also a blue bike with "Royal Scot" on it and an orange bike. I don't know the make of the green or orange bikes.
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Old 04-26-22, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lelila View Post
Thank you for letting me know. I don't know what a homepage album is but I'll look around and figure it out.
Go to your BF "user control panel" and profile and find "pictures & albums" an create photo albums. Others can then access that until you reach the number of posts so you can up load pictures to threads.
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Old 04-26-22, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lelila View Post
Holy Cow how did you know about the green bike? There is also a blue bike with "Royal Scot" on it and an orange bike. I don't know the make of the green or orange bikes.

I guess I must have psychic powers. Really, just a guess, based on my liking for the poem I quoted.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of the fleet when you have time.
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Old 04-27-22, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
I guess I must have psychic powers. Really, just a guess, based on my liking for the poem I quoted.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of the fleet when you have time.
I posted pictures in my album since I haven't met the threshold for posts.
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Old 04-27-22, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Norman made a whole range of bikes from the heavy duty utilitarian ones to lightweight bikes with Reynolds tubing. The higher end ones had pretty fabulous decals. Fire and Ice decals sounds like fun-- I'd like to see that.
I uploaded the pictures to my album.
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Old 04-27-22, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Wow, welcome aboard, glad you found us, we live for this stuff.

There is somebody here that will have input, likely plenty of it. No bike is too old, maybe just more challenging.

I would encourage you to be careful, no cleanup or futzing until we get pics and have a look.

You will need 5 posts X 2 days for 10 posts so you can post pics, in the meantime you can try to upload some to your homepage album that may get moved here

We need good ones and plenty of them, chain side full on, closeups, components, decals, etc.

Respond to any and all posts here and comment on any others to get the posts.
I'm still not at the threshold so I put the pics in my album. I'm only allowed 5 posts per day? Not sure - I keep getting messages that I've reached my limit for the day.
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Old 04-27-22, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Wow, welcome aboard, glad you found us, we live for this stuff.

There is somebody here that will have input, likely plenty of it. No bike is too old, maybe just more challenging.

I would encourage you to be careful, no cleanup or futzing until we get pics and have a look.

You will need 5 posts X 2 days for 10 posts so you can post pics, in the meantime you can try to upload some to your homepage album that may get moved here

We need good ones and plenty of them, chain side full on, closeups, components, decals, etc.

Respond to any and all posts here and comment on any others to get the posts.
I'm still not at the threshold so I put the pics in my album. I'm only allowed 5 posts per day? Not sure - I keep getting messages that I've reached my limit for the day or I have to wait 30 minutes to post again. Then I get a message to wait 20 seconds. Must be a caching issue.
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Old 04-27-22, 07:30 PM
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Well that didn't work. I thought I was multiquoting but obviously I failed at that.
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