Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Why would my seatpost bolt be cut like this?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Why would my seatpost bolt be cut like this?

Old 04-26-22, 09:01 PM
  #1  
jonny7
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 385

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin aero, Bertrand GB 2000, Spec Allez Pro

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Why would my seatpost bolt be cut like this?




I am reassembling a very nice 531 Reynolds bike which I bought completely stripped. It it fully equipped with Campy Nuovo Record (OEM), circa 1973-4. I am putting the last touch to the bike and I just canít seem to secure the seatpost in the seattube. It looks like I would need a 26.8 SP when I actually have a 26.6. These are however the original parts. There must be something I am missing here. The only unusual thing I am noticing is the binder bolt which seems to have been cut so as to allow someone to hold it in place with pliers. Could this hint at some kind of trick that would have been used in the past to tighten the seatbolt? Is it a mere lack of respect towards Campy hardware? What then could I do to hold the SP in place? Put a spacer at the end of the bolt? Iím guessing there must be a cheat code here since the parts used to be on this bike.
jonny7 is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 09:12 PM
  #2  
droppedandlost 
small ring
 
droppedandlost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: PNW
Posts: 894
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 369 Post(s)
Liked 622 Times in 283 Posts
someone wanted to put a wrench on it. the "teeth" were probably stripped and the bolt was spinning and couldn't be tightened.

the seatlug ears are seriously deformed, something isn't right.
__________________
droppedandlost is offline  
Likes For droppedandlost:
Old 04-26-22, 09:21 PM
  #3  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 12,032
Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2928 Post(s)
Liked 1,555 Times in 1,126 Posts
-----

pillar clearly too small for opening

attempts to tighten binder have deformed seat lug

suggest to begin with a ream - not to enlarge opening but to get it round so it will smoothly accept the intended size pillar

next order of business is to reform seat lug

would be great if you were going to paint then you could have a framebuilder add reinforcement to the interior of the binder ears


-----

Last edited by juvela; 04-26-22 at 09:43 PM. Reason: addition
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 04-26-22, 09:23 PM
  #4  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked 937 Times in 564 Posts
Looks like it could stand to try 27.2, What is this bike?
Mr. 66 is offline  
Likes For Mr. 66:
Old 04-26-22, 09:25 PM
  #5  
jonny7
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 385

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin aero, Bertrand GB 2000, Spec Allez Pro

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
Looks like it could stand to try 27.2, What is this bike?
A fantastic CCM Tour du Canada - one of the rare years when it was a high end bike. The bike is in remarkable condition, except for the shown area.
jonny7 is offline  
Likes For jonny7:
Old 04-26-22, 09:56 PM
  #6  
gaucho777 
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,217

Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked 1,463 Times in 421 Posts
Yeah, those seatlug ears look jacked up. The previous owner appears to have made flats for using a wrench (and damaged the paint in that area), though the grooves in the seat binder bolt were intended to keep that side fixed while adjusting the other end. Clearly bottomed out on a too-small post. I'm also struck by the apparent gap at the bottom of the vertical cutout. It looks like the seat post has been cut very short just a couple of inches below the top of the seat tube. If that's the case, such a short post is probably not safe as it may damage the frame and obviates any original limit lines on the post. Or maybe the post is just pulled up way too high in the frame?
gaucho777 is offline  
Likes For gaucho777:
Old 04-26-22, 10:04 PM
  #7  
jonny7
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 385

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin aero, Bertrand GB 2000, Spec Allez Pro

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
I'm also struck by the apparent gap at the bottom of the vertical cutout.
Yes, this puzzles me, almost even more. The seatpost is 8cm. Why in the world would someone cut it so short? To cut weight? I mean, this is a very nice bike, but it's not a sub 20 bike!
jonny7 is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 10:09 PM
  #8  
noobinsf 
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,076

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked 987 Times in 599 Posts
Originally Posted by jonny7 View Post
Yes, this puzzles me, almost even more. The seatpost is 8cm. Why in the world would someone cut it so short? To cut weight? I mean, this is a very nice bike, but it's not a sub 20 bike!
Yup, I think saving weight is the driver behind such, erm, behavior. The previous owner was a butcher; the bike is in better hands now...
noobinsf is offline  
Likes For noobinsf:
Old 04-26-22, 10:24 PM
  #9  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,037

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3452 Post(s)
Liked 3,542 Times in 2,188 Posts
Originally Posted by jonny7 View Post



I am reassembling a very nice 531 Reynolds bike which I bought completely stripped. It it fully equipped with Campy Nuovo Record (OEM), circa 1973-4. I am putting the last touch to the bike and I just canít seem to secure the seatpost in the seattube. It looks like I would need a 26.8 SP when I actually have a 26.6. These are however the original parts. There must be something I am missing here. The only unusual thing I am noticing is the binder bolt which seems to have been cut so as to allow someone to hold it in place with pliers. Could this hint at some kind of trick that would have been used in the past to tighten the seatbolt? Is it a mere lack of respect towards Campy hardware? What then could I do to hold the SP in place? Put a spacer at the end of the bolt? Iím guessing there must be a cheat code here since the parts used to be on this bike.
That whole clamp area, bolt and post have taken a beating. That post is most likely too small despite seeming original or correct, it is likely neither.

The ears are touching so the clamp is not going to hold. That means the post is to small or the ST is too big, it is likely out of round, mangled, distorted and won't except the proper size post.

It may take a framebuilder to make it right.
merziac is online now  
Likes For merziac:
Old 04-26-22, 10:37 PM
  #10  
jonny7
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 385

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin aero, Bertrand GB 2000, Spec Allez Pro

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
Looks like it could stand to try 27.2, What is this bike?
I've managed to fit in a 27.0 that I had lying around, a bit tight but didn't have to apply excessive force.
jonny7 is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 10:42 PM
  #11  
SurferRosa
SeŮor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,131

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2568 Post(s)
Liked 3,551 Times in 1,890 Posts
Originally Posted by droppedandlost View Post
someone wanted to put a wrench on it.
Sacrilege!

You're welcome, everyone!

​​​​​​On my seatpost bolts, I use a tiny little 5mm allen key that was bundled with an Ikea desk. Not even 2" long. That's all that's ever needed!
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 04-26-22, 11:05 PM
  #12  
bamboobike4
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 329 Posts
The binder bolt is from a quill stem clamp, or could be in backwards.
Iím leaning towards it being a quill stem clamp bolt, as the flat edges generally fit against a lip on the back of a stem clamp.

It was likely used because the seat post binder bolt was too long, or missing.
Too long makes sense, as the seat post diameter is too small for a proper fit.
The post is also too short, which supports it being the wrong seat post altogether.

Someone tried to ďmake it work,Ē albeit on a level below the craftsmanship often evident here in C&V.
bamboobike4 is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 11:30 PM
  #13  
Retoocs
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
The binder bolt is probably in backwards. If you flip it around, I bet the serrations fit in nicely.
Retoocs is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 11:35 PM
  #14  
jonny7
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 385

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin aero, Bertrand GB 2000, Spec Allez Pro

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by Retoocs View Post
The binder bolt is probably in backwards. If you flip it around, I bet the serrations fit in nicely.
You're actually right here, but this way around makes the binder bolt even longer. When the serrations fit in the frame, there is just no way to tighten the seatpost. Then again maybe this hints at the real problem?
jonny7 is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 11:43 PM
  #15  
Pcampeau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 714

Bikes: 1968 Raleigh Super Course. 1972 Raleigh Professional, 1975 Raleigh International, 1978 Raleigh Professional, 1985 Raleigh Prestige, 1972 Schwinn Paramount, 1980 Schwinn Voyageur 11.8, 1978 Schwinn Varsity, 1976 Peugeot PX10, 1972 Motobecane Le Champ

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 388 Times in 221 Posts
Originally Posted by jonny7 View Post
You're actually right here, but this way around makes the binder bolt even longer. When the serrations fit in the frame, there is just no way to tighten the seatpost. Then again maybe this hints at the real problem?
The half with the cut off portions is Campagnolo. No doubt the Campy bolt snapped (they are not very resilient and are easy to break even while being careful) when trying to over tighten it, now it looks like you may have an odd piece of hardware inserted thatís too long.

Last edited by Pcampeau; 04-26-22 at 11:54 PM.
Pcampeau is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 11:47 PM
  #16  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,037

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3452 Post(s)
Liked 3,542 Times in 2,188 Posts
When did Campy make stem bolts?
merziac is online now  
Likes For merziac:
Old 04-26-22, 11:47 PM
  #17  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,037

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3452 Post(s)
Liked 3,542 Times in 2,188 Posts
Never
merziac is online now  
Old 04-27-22, 07:07 AM
  #18  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,013
Mentioned: 622 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4594 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,772 Times in 1,745 Posts
The TdC were originally fitted with 27.0 seat pillars, as CCM spec'd the heavier (19/22 gauge) Reynolds 531, single butted, seat tube. CCM also saved a few pennies by using the shorter (13cm) Campagnolo Record seat pillar. We routinely had to replace them with the 18cm version, to achieve a proper fit for customers. However, if it is only 8cm, then it has been cut.

As previously noted, it was a fairly common practice to cut the pillar to eliminate weight. You set your saddle height, then marked the pillar at the top of the seat tube, removed it and cut it so that you only had 2" in the frame. Some aggressive cyclists would cut it even shorter, so that the bottom of the pillar extended just below the cinch slot. The latter appears to have been the case in this situation, with the slight gap probably due to a readjustment, possibly a new saddle with a slightly different height. The OEM saddle would have been a Cinelli Unicanitor.

As noted by gaucho777, the flats were filed/cut into the knurled, female end of the bolt to allow a purchase with an open end wrench and prevent it from spinning. Normally, the knurled end would be on the non-drive side. This way, when standing behind the saddle, the tighterning is performed with the dominant, right hand. However, it could be argued that this should be reversed with a Campagnolo cinch bolts, due to their low elastcity and and high failure rate. As suggested by SurferRosa, one solution is to use a shorter Allen wrench, which reduces the torque.

It's not to often that hear "fantastic" and "CCM" in the same sentence, even for the top of the line TdC. Note how they didn't bother to drill a stress relief hole at the bottom of the cinch slot. I'm also suprised to hear that it came with a full (Nuovo) Record group. Typically, they came with Universal 68 side-pull brakes, as the Campagnolo Record brakset was ridiculously expensive. Also, I suspect that it has already been the subject of a repaint. While there were some years where the colour was custom, the standard colour was purple.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 04-27-22, 08:07 AM
  #19  
bamboobike4
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Never
I missed the Campy lettering on the binder bolt, cataracts being what they are.
The serrated side is common on many stem clamp bolts, and some have the flat-sided end that tucks up behind and under the bar.
My mistake.

That being said, every Campy binder bolt I've ever tried (3) snapped at initial tightening.
I'm surprised this one didn't, as well, especially pulling on the ears like that.
bamboobike4 is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 10:59 AM
  #20  
jonny7
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 385

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin aero, Bertrand GB 2000, Spec Allez Pro

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The TdC were originally fitted with 27.0 seat pillars.
I was hoping you'd chime in! I'll be on the hunt for a Campagnol 27.0 seatpost then.
jonny7 is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 12:11 PM
  #21  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,028
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 578 Times in 451 Posts
I have a Gipiemme seatpost bolt that appears to have been made with the flats OEM, at least always looked like this to me, and I certainly did not grind or file any flats and there's chrome plating on those surfaces.
I assumed it was to "interlock" with some specific seat lug ear cause flats are on the female side with serrations, not the male end with the full head and the GPM Italy marking.
But sure it COULD be used with a spanner, it's exactly 10mm flat-to-flat.

If this was originally a STEM bolt: did GPM ever make stems?

Last edited by unworthy1; 04-27-22 at 12:15 PM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 01:29 PM
  #22  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,037

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3452 Post(s)
Liked 3,542 Times in 2,188 Posts
Originally Posted by bamboobike4 View Post
I missed the Campy lettering on the binder bolt, cataracts being what they are.
The serrated side is common on many stem clamp bolts, and some have the flat-sided end that tucks up behind and under the bar.
My mistake.

That being said, every Campy binder bolt I've ever tried (3) snapped at initial tightening.
I'm surprised this one didn't, as well, especially pulling on the ears like that.
Well, I've never snapped one, knock wood and I get it, we're in the can't see s**t and too old, tired to give one either, to our ever increasing detriment.

If they are too close to spec when a frame is made, they end up "bottoming out" when the seatlug binder clamp wears in as they usually do especially when a ham fist comes along and makes things worse.

The post starts slipping, somebody leans in and snap goes the bolt.

Several things I do are anti seize on the bolt as I have seen others snap it from binding of the threads when they are not bottomed out, clean the ST and post for a good fit and assessment whether the post may be too small, carbon paste and as a very last resort I grind the female side down to allow more tightening when all else fails.

Its not rocket surgery but it is a PITA when you have to do a deep dive on something that should have been correct from the beginning and handled correctly along the way.
merziac is online now  
Old 04-27-22, 04:12 PM
  #23  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,007

Bikes: Schwinn Paramounts, Othon Ochsner, Masi, Faggin

Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 903 Times in 614 Posts
Jonny7,
If you have the top parts for the two pin seat post I have an orphan Campy 27.0 post. Standard length so you might need to do a ream to clean the tube and get the fit correct. Lemme know, MH
Mad Honk is online now  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 04-29-22, 04:07 PM
  #24  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,007

Bikes: Schwinn Paramounts, Othon Ochsner, Masi, Faggin

Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 903 Times in 614 Posts
Well jonny7 has replied and asked for pics; so here they are:

Mad Honk uses 3m wheel to remove some pitting in the post

Putting final touches on the satin finish

Cleaned and ready for inspection

A little hard to read but it is stamped 27

The bottom of the world logo is very light but can still be seen on close inspection
I put a digital caliper on the post and it reads 26.95 with a reading of 26.93 where I was bit aggressive with the corrosion on the bottom of the post. It is a full insertion length post, so the tubes likely will need to be reamed to get the tubing ID corrected to 27.0 size. Lemme know if this is what you are looking for. Smiles, MH

The golf club head refinishing tools help a bit in cleaning some of these bits up. The disclaimer is that the wheel used is pretty hefty pricewise and would be costly for just a few uses. Mine is over 30 years old and has paid for itself many times. About five minutes of polishing work to clean and give the satin finish to the aluminum post.

Last edited by Mad Honk; 04-29-22 at 04:11 PM.
Mad Honk is online now  
Likes For Mad Honk:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.