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Odd 3 speed hub with cassette?

Old 04-30-22, 04:04 PM
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bjt0055
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Odd 3 speed hub with cassette?

Friend dropped off some bikes to look over. One was a 1961 Schwinn Varsity 10 speed with a unique hub. It's a 3 speed hub with a 5 speed cassette. Marked "Schwinn approved, Austria". Uses a Sturmey Archer shifter for the internal gear part. Couldn't find anything online but I think I've seen this before?

Any info on this hub? I don't believe it's original to the bike, it would have made 30 speeds theoretically. Thanks
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Old 04-30-22, 04:32 PM
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I’ve heard of them but never seen one in person. Personally I think it’s a cool idea as you wouldn’t really need a double triple upfront with a setup like this.

Any pics.
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Old 04-30-22, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
Iíve heard of them but never seen one in person. Personally I think itís a cool idea as you wouldnít really need a double triple upfront with a setup like this.

Any pics.

Seems like someone spent some time on this. Rather interesting
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Old 04-30-22, 04:50 PM
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A threaded driver, a standard old Sturmey piece instead of a splined one, will allow you to use a freewheel screwed onto the rear hub for a 3xX setup. You can combine that with a double or triple front for lots of gear combinations. Many examples of this to be found out in the world.
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Old 04-30-22, 04:51 PM
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I'm certain it is a freewheel (possibly an Atom or Regina) and not a cassette. Have you checked the SA hub date? Finally, IIRC, a '61 Varsity was an eight-speed with a four-speed freewheel.
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Old 04-30-22, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I'm certain it is a freewheel (possibly an Atom or Regina) and not a cassette. Have you checked the SA hub date? Finally, IIRC, a '61 Varsity was an eight-speed with a four-speed freeway.
I meant to say freewheel. I was thinking 62 possibly? It has the shifter where you have to reach down and move by hand to change chainrings. Was that on the 62s ?
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Old 04-30-22, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I'm certain it is a freewheel (possibly an Atom or Regina) and not a cassette. Have you checked the SA hub date? Finally, IIRC, a '61 Varsity was an eight-speed with a four-speed freeway.
I don't believe it's an SA hub? Marked Austria. Saw no numbers on it for dates.
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Old 04-30-22, 05:02 PM
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Sounds like some aftermarket or dealer-installed upgrades using a Styria of Austria Sturmey knock-off. The patents on the AW expired in the mid/late 50s. From the Sturmey-Archer Heritage web page:




A Schwinn dealer wouldn't have been a stranger to hybrid IGH/derailleur gearing in those days.


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Old 04-30-22, 05:09 PM
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That is a cool setup.

I can’t find it but I thought Sachs, very shortly, made a 2 spd hub with a 7 spd cassette. Whilst looking for it I came across this technobabble but it makes an interesting case for this style of hub for use on small wheeled bikes.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sachs-internal.html
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Old 04-30-22, 08:50 PM
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Many moons ago (meaning 1973 or 1974), a friend and made a literal barn find of an old Bianchi with a cottered triple up front with a five-speed freewheel on a three-speed hub. So, 45 speeds total. It was too big for my friend, so I got it. It had been in a front-end crash - the forks were rideable but noticeably bent and I had them straightened. The drivetrain was beyond my 16 year old selfís ability to do anything about, so it all promptly disappeared, never to be seen again. (The only thing I kept was the Campy Gran Sport RD, although not for long.). I thought it was about the goofiest thing I had ever seen. I still kind of do. This is the first time I have ever seen a similar set up since then.

I never rode it in that configuration, but I did build it up (my first such project) and rode it for a year or two until I got the funds to buy a new Bob Jackson frame. I still have the Bianchi frame and even rode Eroica CA on it, even though it is by now too small for me. According to Ed Littonís best guesstimate, itís a 1961 Compitizione, the lowest end frame made at the Reparto Corse part of the Bianchi factory.

Thatís my story and Iísticking with it.
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Old 04-30-22, 10:06 PM
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My notes indicate cyclist David Sore rode 35000 miles on an around-the-world tour (1966-1969) aboard a bicycle fitted with ten-speed derailleur gear and a three-speed Sturmey-Archer hub.
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Old 04-30-22, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I canít find it but I thought Sachs, very shortly, made a 2 spd hub with a 7 spd cassette.
Sturmey-Archer has offered various hybrid deraileur+IGH gearing set-ups since the early 1930s, and still catalogs the CS-R*3 cassette+three-speed.

*F for freewheel, K for disc
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Old 05-01-22, 03:48 AM
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The hub is probably a Styria "Drei Gang", made by Steyr-Daimler-Puch. They are close copies of the Sturmey AW-3.
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Old 05-01-22, 04:47 AM
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3 Speed Hubs With Freewheels

Fichtel & Sachs introduced their Torpedo 3 Speed Internal Gear Hubs in Germany in the early 30's. By 1935 they were offering those hubs with 3 speed FWs.

I was in Japan in 1964-65. I bought a Bridgestone Randonneur style 10 speed bike. It had French Huret derailleurs, Swiss Weinmann 999 brakes and a British Wright saddle. It also had a 15-16-17-19-21T FW with 44-51T chainrings

Ignore the high bars and slammed seat... It was my first derailleur bike and I was just learning to ride it.


A few months later... Portrait Of The Artist As A Young Man.


This is a 1967 ad for a similar model.


The Shinkansen "Bullet Train" came though our town and there was one ground level road crossing that I frequently used. It was a rural area and the only safety guard was a cable on both sides of the tracks that came down as soon a the crossing bell started to ring. About 30-40 seconds later >>>>>>>>>>>>



The Huret derailleurs never inspired much confidence and I was afraid that I could get stuck in the middle of the crossing not being able to shift !!!

At their suggestion I had the LBS where I bought the bike install a Maeda 3.3.3 (Suntour) 3 speed internal gear hub so I had a 30 speed bike!

I could pop wheelies with no effort! There was no wall I couldn't climb! I got a speeding ticket for doing 35 mph in a 15 mph zone (56 km in a 24 km zone)...

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Old 05-02-22, 05:48 AM
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Circa 1968 one of my father's friends gave me a 26x1-3/8" wheel with a 14-16-18-20 cog block on a standard Sturmey-Archer AW hub. Independently, one of my friends gave me a 26x1-3/8" wheel with a 13-19-25 cog block on an AW hub. I believe these were Cyclo or Cyclo-Benelux conversion kits. The only disadvantage (for me) was both took 1/8" wide chains, instead of 3/32", precluding things like dual or triple chainrings up front.

The 13-19-25 ratios act more like a wide-range 5-speed with compound low (25 in first) and compound overdrive (13 in third), with lots of redundancies in between. I greatly preferred the 14-20 4-speed, which, coupled with a 40T chainring, provided a great 10-unique-speed ratiometric progression from 39 to 99 gear inches, with the only redundancies at the boundaries between 3-speed ranges. This was one of my favorite bike transmissions, although if it had been offered for a 3/32 chain, I could have had a really nice (40-38 / 14-16-18-20) * 1.33/1.00/0.75 setup with 20 unique and usable gears. 40T in front with the AW in back is the equivalent to a 53-40-30 in front, and one can do a lot with that with various cog combinations.
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Old 05-02-22, 06:31 PM
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Just a quick update. I messed around with this a bit. The limit screws will only allow 4 of the 5 cogs on the freewheel to be functional. Otherwise everything works as it should. None the less it is a well built wheel, true and tensioned nicely after all these years. I'm fairly sure it's a period correct addition and not recent. Someone really liked this bike, its in excellent condition for a 1962 model . Thanks for all the insight and comments
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Old 05-02-22, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
That is a cool setup.

I can’t find it but I thought Sachs, very shortly, made a 2 spd hub with a 7 spd cassette. Whilst looking for it I came across this technobabble but it makes an interesting case for this style of hub for use on small wheeled bikes.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sachs-internal.html
Yes, it was the Sachs Orbit. I recently built a NOS Orbit into a bike.

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