Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Bottom Bracket Spindle Width Question

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Bottom Bracket Spindle Width Question

Old 05-02-22, 10:33 AM
  #1  
buddiiee 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 264

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Bottom Bracket Spindle Width Question

Ok, got this old '88 Trek 1200 and I wanted to throw in a new BB and realized that the old school cup and cone replacements are actually more expensive than the new sealed cartridge varieties. I suppose having a modern bb on this old school bike shouldn't be that bad. It's hidden anyways. I measured the axle and it's 116, but when I search for the axle widths on performancebike's website, there's only 1, 116mm option....

Why I'm asking this is, because I feel this bike may have been bastardized a few owners ago, and now I'm not sure this is the correct spindle width. There must be a reason why there's exactly one 116mm option on that site. This bike has a Shimano Mountain LX triple crankset on it... (not sure this bike was supposed to be a mountain bike wannabe-currently converting back to normal road bike configuration) Is this bike even supposed to have a 116? What was the standard back then in the late 80's, I forget
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza





Last edited by buddiiee; 05-02-22 at 10:39 AM.
buddiiee is offline  
Old 05-02-22, 10:46 AM
  #2  
bargainguy
Senior Member
 
bargainguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Trekland
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Liked 159 Times in 106 Posts
Your '88 1200 came with a Shimano 105 double crank with a sealed BB (p. 24 in this link):

https://www.vintage-trek.com/Trek-Fi...d/1988trek.pdf

Unless you wanted to retain the Mountain LX crank, this would be a good opportunity to replace it with something closer to the original 105 crank and spindle/BB.

Edit: Spindle length for the '88 105 is 119 per this link:

https://www.velosaloon.com/products/...pset-from-1988

Last edited by bargainguy; 05-02-22 at 10:50 AM.
bargainguy is offline  
Old 05-02-22, 11:45 AM
  #3  
buddiiee 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 264

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Yea I seen that, but was confused when it called out the frame sizes; it mentions 50 as the smallest, but mine's a 48, which made me start to seriously doubt the catalog... I mean even the hubs are wrong. Catalog says hubs were sealed matrixes, whereas mine are ultegras...
And then on top of that, there isn't even a 119 option at performancebike lol.
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza





Last edited by buddiiee; 05-02-22 at 11:49 AM.
buddiiee is offline  
Old 05-02-22, 12:24 PM
  #4  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,572
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 992 Times in 591 Posts
I think Velosaloon is incorrect with the 119mm.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Old 05-02-22, 03:22 PM
  #5  
bargainguy
Senior Member
 
bargainguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Trekland
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Liked 159 Times in 106 Posts
A little more digging. Maybe it's 115?

https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...34a99&Enum=115
bargainguy is offline  
Old 05-02-22, 04:24 PM
  #6  
alcjphil
Senior Member
 
alcjphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,319
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1539 Post(s)
Liked 1,222 Times in 725 Posts
Originally Posted by buddiiee View Post
Yea I seen that, but was confused when it called out the frame sizes; it mentions 50 as the smallest, but mine's a 48, which made me start to seriously doubt the catalog... I mean even the hubs are wrong. Catalog says hubs were sealed matrixes, whereas mine are ultegras...
And then on top of that, there isn't even a 119 option at performancebike lol.
When you are looking at 34 year old bikes which have had multiple owners in the past, you cannot assume that anything on the bike is stock or standard. I owned a 1973 Raleigh Professional for 30 years and changed numerous parts on it over the years, some because of wear and some for improvements in gearing and shifting. As well, specifications were often changed during a model run for several reasons, parts availability and price point being two of them
alcjphil is offline  
Old 05-02-22, 11:05 PM
  #7  
Seanaus
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 27 Posts
According to Shimano BB-1050 and BB-1055 are both >>> 113mm for English (68mm), 115mm for Italian (70mm) 119mm sounds like a BB for a triple.
I don't know these older Trek products, but I am assuming they would be English BB?

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FC...1050-0757B.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/s...-1055-1110.pdf
Seanaus is offline  
Likes For Seanaus:
Old 05-03-22, 01:43 AM
  #8  
buddiiee 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 264

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
They are; 68mm width, english threading.
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza




buddiiee is offline  
Old 05-03-22, 02:35 AM
  #9  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 8,946

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked 1,561 Times in 820 Posts
@buddiiee - The important part is whatever you decide for a crank, make sure you have the right spindle. They are matched. Two dependencies for determining spindle length, BB shell size and crank choice.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Likes For SJX426:
Old 05-03-22, 03:46 AM
  #10  
plonz 
Senior Member
 
plonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Western MI
Posts: 2,649
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times in 205 Posts
Being a mountain bike crank, spindles for the Mountain LX would have likely been spec’d for a 73mm shell. I would also assume it has a wider Q factor which puts the pedals further out. That’s a personal preference but I like narrow road cranks on a road bike.

If you keep the Mountain LX, I would spec the spindle based on achieving the desired road bike chainline. See Sheldon’s article on everything chainline. Personally, I’d replace the LX with a road bike crankset. You might even get someone on BF to swap you straight up.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline-multi.html
plonz is online now  
Likes For plonz:
Old 05-03-22, 04:12 AM
  #11  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,008

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1019 Post(s)
Liked 1,146 Times in 620 Posts
Simple Solution

VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION:

First find a crank that you want to use... Then find a 68mm British Thread BB that works with that crank! Sealed bearing BB cartridges are GREAT! Once installed you never have to mess with them again!

All of those BB widths sound significantly different - 113mm, 115mm, 116mm, 119mm... Bear in mind that 1mm is less than 0.040" which is slightly over 1/32".

Over time from use plus removal and replacement, the square tapers in soft aluminum crank arms will deform and seat further onto the BB spindle tapers. 3mm or 1/8" is not an uncommon amount of distance for that to happen. That can throw all of the specs out the window, especially with old used crank arms.

With worn cranks, you are probably better off with a spindle that 2mm+ longer rather than a shorter one... You are only talking about less than 1/8" !!!

I threw together this Flickr album one night in 2011 while I was rooting through my stash of BB and spindles trying to put together a winter SS beater. I should update it but....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7627678462359/

Check out my comments below the photos. It will give you a better picture of what you need to look for.

verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Likes For verktyg:
Old 05-03-22, 05:56 AM
  #12  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,051

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1612 Post(s)
Liked 1,623 Times in 1,100 Posts
Agree with those above advocating to get the Crank first.

if eBaying, you can choose a crank BB combination... 105, 600-Ultegra, 600EX, etc...
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course)...need to not buy any more.





jdawginsc is online now  
Old 05-04-22, 09:39 PM
  #13  
Steel1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 20 Posts
I just repacked my BB on a 1987 Trek 560. It also had a 116mm spindle, Shimano D-3L, with Hatta cups. Crankset is a 600 double. When disassembling, I thought the spindle might be in backwards due to orientation of lettering, but then realized this one is symmetrical L and R so it didnt matter (32mm each side). Not sure if this helps you, but figured yours might be similar since 1 year apart.
Steel1 is offline  
Old 05-05-22, 06:28 PM
  #14  
buddiiee 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 264

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Looks like old campy grease But yea, I found some old really good condition 1050 105's... So now which axle should go with those?
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza




buddiiee is offline  
Old 05-05-22, 07:06 PM
  #15  
C9H13N 
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Seattle
Posts: 314

Bikes: Davidson 81

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 80 Posts
Originally Posted by buddiiee View Post
Looks like old campy grease But yea, I found some old really good condition 1050 105's... So now which axle should go with those?
Shimano spec for FC-1050 on 68mm shell is 113mm, marked D-3H.

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FC...1050-0757B.pdf
C9H13N is offline  
Old 05-06-22, 09:17 PM
  #16  
buddiiee 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 264

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
113? I will try this.
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza




buddiiee is offline  
Old 05-06-22, 11:37 PM
  #17  
SurferRosa
seor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,426

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2691 Post(s)
Liked 3,820 Times in 2,025 Posts
Just fyi, @buddiiee, it's more accepted to refer to the "width" of the BB shell and the "length" of the spindle.
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 05-07-22, 12:31 AM
  #18  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,008

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1019 Post(s)
Liked 1,146 Times in 620 Posts
Shimano BBs

Originally Posted by Steel1 View Post
I just repacked my BB on a 1987 Trek 560. It also had a 116mm spindle, Shimano D-3L, with Hatta cups. Crankset is a 600 double. When disassembling, I thought the spindle might be in backwards due to orientation of lettering, but then realized this one is symmetrical L and R so it didn’t matter (32mm each side). Not sure if this helps you, but figured yours might be similar since 1 year apart.
Something that I discovered when I was doing my Flickr BB album, the bores in the Shimano cups and spindles that I had are larger diameters than a lot of other makes and are not compatible with Stronglight, T.A. and so on. I don't know if this is true across the board ???

Point being, if you are going to use a Shimano BB spindle, make sure that you have cups to fit it.... This spindle is 112mm wide and is for use with track cranks. It's also 68mm wide but not marked.





verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Likes For verktyg:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.