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Suntour Perfect with 13-tooth cog?

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Suntour Perfect with 13-tooth cog?

Old 05-03-22, 06:12 AM
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Suntour Perfect with 13-tooth cog?

I once owned a Suntour Perfect freewheel that had smaller threads in the outside cog position, allowing it to take a 13-tooth small cog. They're not very common, but there are some around, I think. What I can't recall, and haven't been able to find out, is whether these freewheels are designed for a the standard six-speed 126mm OLD, or for the 120mm six-speed ultra variant.

What I'm asking, I guess, is this: Did Suntour (or anyone else, for that matter) make a 120-spaced 6-speed freewheel that would accept a 13-tooth cog? At least one inquiring mind wants to know.
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Old 05-03-22, 07:26 AM
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Yes, there was a Suntour freewheel version for 6 spd 120 OLD. see https://www.sheldonbrown.com/suntour-freewheel.html
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Old 05-03-22, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
I once owned a Suntour Perfect freewheel that had smaller threads in the outside cog position, allowing it to take a 13-tooth small cog. They're not very common, but there are some around, I think. What I can't recall, and haven't been able to find out, is whether these freewheels are designed for a the standard six-speed 126mm OLD, or for the 120mm six-speed ultra variant.

What I'm asking, I guess, is this: Did Suntour (or anyone else, for that matter) make a 120-spaced 6-speed freewheel that would accept a 13-tooth cog? At least one inquiring mind wants to know.
Jon, in my service experience and IIRC, the 13T Perfect is always spaced for 126mm. I'd check the one I think I have but it is in NH and I'm in GA.

I recently worked on a client's Atom 77 Compact. As you can see it had a 13T sprocket.

Also, the Suntour New Winner, Winner Pro, and Winner bodies can be 6 speed narrow-spaced with 13T.

While I have limited experience with the Regina CX narrow spaced, I'm certain they can be equipped with a 13T as well.
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Old 05-03-22, 07:29 AM
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And Jon, will you seriously use a 13T? I thought I knew you better!
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Old 05-03-22, 08:55 AM
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This source says yes to a 13T on an Ultra Winner body but not the Perfect body.

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...-_page_26.html
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Old 05-03-22, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
And Jon, will you seriously use a 13T? I thought I knew you better!
As a general rule, I don't know better, regardless of the endeavor involved. But in this case, I suppose I will take the easy way out and restrict myself to a 14-tooth high. Coasting down hills has a certain charm.
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Old 05-03-22, 09:33 AM
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I just picked up at a bike show a Suntour 13-28 6 speed that seems to be ultra spaced when holding it up to compare with another Ultra 6 I have mounted. Body says VIA with a date code of bd. It measures around 29mm thickness. A very nice 13-15-18-21-24-28 spacing and silver cogs. Sorry about the poor picks. Looks like a slightly wider spacing gap between the two smallest cogs. This one may be a home built one, but may give possibilities to others for their own custom built one.




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Old 05-03-22, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
I just picked up at a bike show a Suntour 13-28 6 speed that seems to be ultra spaced when holding it up to compare with another Ultra 6 I have mounted. Body says VIA with a date code of bd. It measures around 29mm thickness. A very nice 13-15-18-21-24-28 spacing and silver cogs. Sorry about the poor picks. Looks like a slightly wider spacing gap between the two smallest cogs. This one may be a home built one, but may give possibilities to others for their own custom built one.



Originally Posted by mech986 View Post
This source says yes to a 13T on an Ultra Winner body but not the Perfect body.

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...-_page_26.html
I suppose that technically speaking, the 13T Perfect has a different model name. It's shown in the post above. It uses the same sprockets which fit Perfect and ProCompe bodies in the other five positions. The internals are identical with the exception of the upper part of the outer body.

I believe the one above has had the original standard spacers replaced with ultra spacers. The giveaway is the gap between the 13T and the second sprocket. IIRC, this model only came in standard spacing. Can you compare it to a six speed Shimano? It should be about the same height.
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Old 05-03-22, 04:54 PM
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Pretty close in height of cogs to the Shimano. Perhaps the Suntour is just a wee bit thinner through the stack height. The Shimano does have more overhang. Shimano is on the left.




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Old 05-03-22, 04:56 PM
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Yes. I bought a Team Fuji in 1984 that was spaced at 120mm and came with a Suntour New Winner Ultra-6 13-24 freewheel
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Old 05-03-22, 05:48 PM
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The Perfect and the Winner/New Winner are completely different freewheels. If the Perfect ever came with a 13T outer I've forgotten it.
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Old 05-03-22, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
The Perfect and the Winner/New Winner are completely different freewheels. If the Perfect ever came with a 13T outer I've forgotten it.
...and to clarify further, the internals on a New Winner are completely different from a Winner which is different from the Winner Pro. However, a ProCompe is a tuned-up Perfect.

Just to add to the conversation.
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Old 05-03-22, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
And Jon, will you seriously use a 13T? I thought I knew you better!
I never thought I would need a 13, but it works well with a 45-42 / 13-15-17-20-23-26 half-step or my 46-38 / 13-15-17-19-22-25 1.5-step. With a 49 or 50T outer chainring, I am happy with a 14T high in back.
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Old 05-04-22, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
...and to clarify further, the internals on a New Winner are completely different from a Winner which is different from the Winner Pro. However, a ProCompe is a tuned-up Perfect.

Just to add to the conversation.
I thought I had a perfect with a 13 but maybe I'm wrong.
Edit.... I was wrong, just looked.

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Old 05-04-22, 05:18 AM
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Not what anyone was asking, just a fun fact, in the mid-'80s there was a wide 6 (not Ultra) that went to eleven. Endorsed by Nigel Tufnel.

They were Winner Pro IIRC. I have a couple of them, could go look but I'm lazy and someone here (@pastorbobnlnh) will know off the top of his head.



The Z-11 cog could only go on the Y-13, no other choice. The Y-Z combo could only go on a wide-6 not narrow 6 nor 7 nor 5 speeds.



I used 'em on my MTB for a while there, circa '85. The 11t let me use a 42 for the big ring, on a XC-racer. An adapter I made let me use a freewheel cog as the granny ring on my triple, a TA 5-vis; I settled on an 18 to 20t granny That let me use a smaller freewheel, which in turn let me use a Dura-Ace 7400 short-cage rear mech, so I had SIS on my MTB — before the pros did. (Joe Murray came up to me at Crested Butte and complained about Shimano promising him SIS and not delivering. He seemed mad at me for having it!) I had to make a "perch" to graft the SIS DT shifter to, at first, thumb-shifter position on a flat bar, then a bit later I switched to drop bars and made bar-end shifter perches for the DT levers. Later there were commercially-available products to do this — Keith Bontrager for one, sold bar-end shifter perches for DT levers — but none were around when I first made mine. And of course eventually Shimano made indexing thumbies and bar-ends, putting all us DIY-ers out of business...
Oh but I'm totally rambling now. What were we talking about?

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