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Cino vs Eroica California

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Cino vs Eroica California

Old 05-06-22, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
I would go down every year just to hang out with the five people I shared a house with, but also meeting a bunch of other people that I didn’t expect to meet makes it really special. It’s really hard to get the critical mass to make that happen.
I think that the Magic Bus 2018 Eroica event is a kind of example of that. We had 5 people in an RV for 3 nights. Since then most of that core group has gone on bike tours together, Spring Training in Arizona, and a few versions of Eroica Palazzo. You and I would probably not have met @SquireBlack or @Spaghetti Legs without Eroica. I know that Andy means random people met out on the course, or people met online, but it's the same concept.

Maybe Eroica California is like that crazy person you keep breaking up with, but coming back to.

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Old 05-06-22, 10:22 AM
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Eroica as “Unmeeting”?

For the last several years, Jan Heine (Bicycle Quarterly) has announced a thing called the “Unmeeting”. It’s the opposite of an organized ride. He says quite explicitly that there is no fee, and that no services will be provided. You bring your own tent, bike, and food. There are a couple of published routes, and the times that I’ve attended, I’ve met great people, and throughly enjoyed riding, eating and camping with them.

What I like about the Unmeeting is that there is no false advertising: one knows up-front exactly what one is (not) getting for what one is (not) paying.

I had a great time at Eroica. I had an even better tine riding down the coast with Thor and @Davestr. I feel fortunate that I can now afford the time and money (about $1600 plus airfare) to indulge in this. But if Eroica California keeps on shrinking, as seems to be its trajectory, perhaps we could turn it into an “Unmeeting”-style event in which like-minded cyclists get together for a weekend without any pretense of “organization”?
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Old 05-06-22, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SquireBlack View Post
Jan Heine (Bicycle Quarterly) has announced a thing called the “Unmeeting”. It’s the opposite of an organized ride.
As a PDX'er you may be aware of the "Dalles Mtn 60", an event that has followed this format for some time. It was a 60+ mile 40% dirt ride with no fee, no support, no leadership and no official status. The year that I attended (2015) had a turnout of approximately 200 riders and it was great fun! It is not a vintage specific ride but classic bikes were well represented there. I'm not sure of it's status anymore but for awhile it had a lot of momentum. How you turn a ride into a trend like this is a bit of a mystery but it can happen.

https://utahrandonneur.wordpress.com...march-14-2015/
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Old 05-06-22, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Oldairhead View Post
As a PDX'er you may be aware of the "Dalles Mtn 60", an event that has followed this format for some time. It was a 60+ mile 40% dirt ride with no fee, no support, no leadership and no official status. The year that I attended (2015) had a turnout of approximately 500 riders and it was great fun! It is not a vintage specific ride but classic bikes were well represented there. I'm not sure of it's status anymore but for awhile it had a lot of momentum. How you turn a ride into a trend like this is a bit of a mystery but it can happen.
Yeah, Oregon is kind of full of these. The Oregon Perry-Roubaix used to be like that. Someone (I don't even know who, probably the Velo Dirt people) announced a date and made an informal agreement with the golf course at the start that some people would have lunch there if they let us use their parking lot, and around 60 people would show up and ride the route (which is still my favorite gravel ride). Then you have the Ronde De PDX, which they used to not even publicly announce and discouraged publicly discussing -- you had to know someone who knew -- but still got 50-100 people and became so big they added a second day and second route. I tried that with @gugie and @SquireBlack (possibly the first time I met Andrew). Afterward, I made them promise that if I ever suggested doing that route again one of them should just hit me in the kneecap with a ballpeen hammer to save time.

I don't know about the Dalles Mtn, but I know enough about the Ronde to speculate how it became what it did. They had a strong concept (a ride modeled after the Ronde van Vlaanderen but in Portland) and a core group of pre-existing community (I think it grew out of the Portland cyclocross scene, or maybe OBRA more broadly) and through word-of-mouth and persistence, they grew it into something that became almost mythical in peoples minds. It seems like Cino grew in this same way.
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Old 05-06-22, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SquireBlack View Post
For the last several years, Jan Heine (Bicycle Quarterly) has announced a thing called the “Unmeeting”. It’s the opposite of an organized ride. He says quite explicitly that there is no fee, and that no services will be provided. You bring your own tent, bike, and food. There are a couple of published routes, and the times that I’ve attended, I’ve met great people, and throughly enjoyed riding, eating and camping with them.

What I like about the Unmeeting is that there is no false advertising: one knows up-front exactly what one is (not) getting for what one is (not) paying.

I had a great time at Eroica. I had an even better tine riding down the coast with Thor and @Davestr. I feel fortunate that I can now afford the time and money (about $1600 plus airfare) to indulge in this. But if Eroica California keeps on shrinking, as seems to be its trajectory, perhaps we could turn it into an “Unmeeting”-style event in which like-minded cyclists get together for a weekend without any pretense of “organization”?
My experience mirrors yours - even the mirror image of swapping responsibility of driving a borrowed car down! In fact, comparing the September "Touroica" + "Fauxroica" to this year's "Touroica II" + Eroica is perhaps the best comparison. Coming up with our own self-supported route last fall plus other rides we did seems to me to be the sweet spot unless the organizers can provide an exceptional experience - which I believe is what Cino does much better. As for @Andy_K's enjoyment of randomly meeting new friends, as long as enough people show up, this happens. Here's a pic from the final day of last year's Touroica, where I met a few people on the way down to Cambria.



The Unmeeting concept is wonderful. If Eroica decides this is the last California event, a simple post here and a few other sites would make for an organic event. If they do decide to have it again, we just start a week earlier or later. We could encourage, but not require that vintage bikes are ridden. Could have a ride up to Ragged Point and back from Cambria on Saturday, then a 3 climb no fries route from Paso Robles on Sunday.
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Old 05-06-22, 12:23 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Not sure what a "true" comparison means, but one could definitely compare and contrast based on the list I provided in post 1, above.
Mainly just on sheer size/volume, Cino is obviously a fantastic, intimate event with its own particular passion. I just think there is a big difference in the bigger scale of Eroica and for many that may not be the draw but if you go to it looking for certain or particular person, bike, part, info, history, etc., you will likely find something if maybe only a lead.

It would obviously not be one of the primary goals at Cino although I have no doubt Cino can hold its own for the size it is with the quality of the participants it draws, I just think Eroica is bigger bike fest, I don't think your going to see 4 or five Bayliss's or 2 or 3 Merz's at Cino. You will see a larger group of closer cycling friends and that is the big difference, a very good one.

Not saying Eroica isn't a bigger chaotic mess, it is, on a grander scale, each of us has to decide for ourselves if it works for us or not, a certain amount of adversity is always going to be a given at something that big.
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Old 05-06-22, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Mainly just on sheer size/volume, Cino is obviously a fantastic, intimate event with its own particular passion. I just think there is a big difference in the bigger scale of Eroica and for many that may not be the draw but if you go to it looking for certain or particular person, bike, part, info, history, etc., you will likely find something if maybe only a lead.

It would obviously not be one of the primary goals at Cino although I have no doubt Cino can hold its own for the size it is with the quality of the participants it draws, I just think Eroica is bigger bike fest, I don't think your going to see 4 or five Bayliss's or 2 or 3 Merz's at Cino. You will see a larger group of closer cycling friends and that is the big difference, a very good one.

Not saying Eroica isn't a bigger chaotic mess, it is, on a grander scale, each of us has to decide for ourselves if it works for us or not, a certain amount of adversity is always going to be a given at something that big.
Merz....Your points are well made, i for one think that without Eroica i would never have made it over to the West Coast to enjoy the cycling, i have yet to invest in a gravel experience, my wife wont do it so it will have to be a part of a future event that i ride with other riders and that i have a bike set up to handle that, it took a lot of planning and time to get two bikes ready for the relatively easy shorter route with little to no gravel, just getting tires for 27x1.25 was a challenge, two attempts finally some got delivered, then there was logistics, prep, time off, rental car, hotel, flights, packing gear, tools, and some spares for the road, it felt like everything was more critical because we were flying in. at least the event website gave me a feeling that some of the other unknowns like routes, locations, a program of events, times were stated and were accurate and useful...
i hope they stick at it, there is a lot of potential for an ongoing annual event.
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Old 05-06-22, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary12000 View Post
Merz....Your points are well made, i for one think that without Eroica i would never have made it over to the West Coast to enjoy the cycling, i have yet to invest in a gravel experience, my wife wont do it so it will have to be a part of a future event that i ride with other riders and that i have a bike set up to handle that, it took a lot of planning and time to get two bikes ready for the relatively easy shorter route with little to no gravel, just getting tires for 27x1.25 was a challenge, two attempts finally some got delivered, then there was logistics, prep, time off, rental car, hotel, flights, packing gear, tools, and some spares for the road, it felt like everything was more critical because we were flying in. at least the event website gave me a feeling that some of the other unknowns like routes, locations, a program of events, times were stated and were accurate and useful...
i hope they stick at it, there is a lot of potential for an ongoing annual event.
I hope so too, I took my son in 2015 as he was struggling and we did ride some together but he did not go on the "ride" with me, don't know what I was thinking.

So I hope to get him down there with me again. He had a great time before and it seemed to help him quite a bit.

Unfortunately I think we will be lucky if they come back, if any substantial complaints arise from Cambria or the residents, we may be out, we're a fussy bunch and non cycling folks can have a tough time putting up with us, hard feeling crop up pretty quick when it goes south.
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Old 05-06-22, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
They are both great for different reasons.

Eroica has always been a bit of an organizational mess, this year more so than prior years. However, I've come to expect that so it doesn't bother me and I compensate by being relatively self-sufficient. On the other hand, Eroica also has the concours, multiple routes, amazing coastal vistas, a ton of interesting people, and always a great spread in Cayucos.

Cino is nice because it is small, super friendly and local, and has quirky aspects like the bacon lady. I hear that it has great rest and food stops too but I haven't made it that far yet. Perhaps this year.
Better get on it, after this thread, I think @gugie might get his sellout wish.
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Old 05-06-22, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Better get on it, after this thread, I think @gugie might get his sellout wish.
Ha! Already on it. Booked before Gugie even started this thread.
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Old 05-06-22, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
Ha! Already on it. Booked before Gugie even started this thread.
Is Thor joining? If so, good thing there's a mountain bike theme! Not sure if the Olmo will be back on the road by then.
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Old 05-06-22, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
I hope so too, I took my son in 2015 as he was struggling and we did ride some together but he did not go on the "ride" with me, don't know what I was thinking.

So I hope to get him down there with me again. He had a great time before and it seemed to help him quite a bit.

Unfortunately I think we will be lucky if they come back, if any substantial complaints arise from Cambria or the residents, we may be out, we're a fussy bunch and non cycling folks can have a tough time putting up with us, hard feeling crop up pretty quick when it goes south.
Merz,
Fussy might be an understatement, i find myself more easily aggravated the older i get, my wife teases me about it, i try to poke fun at myself but its a challenge us older dudes struggle with, the Eroica organizers seemingly know what they are doing in other countries so you would think they could get it right here in the US...
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Old 05-06-22, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary12000 View Post
Merz,
Fussy might be an understatement, i find myself more easily aggravated the older i get, my wife teases me about it, i try to poke fun at myself but its a challenge us older dudes struggle with, the Eroica organizers seemingly know what they are doing in other countries so you would think they could get it right here in the US...
They could, not worth it to them, we don't show up by the 1000's as you pointed out and we are fussy, its not in our blood like theirs

And it's a big ask halfway across the globe and yeah, trust me, the getting old isn't funny anymore.

It's starting to really suck.
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Old 05-06-22, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
could have a ride up to ragged point and back from cambria on saturday, then a 3 climb no fries plus at minimum three wineries route from paso robles on sunday.
fify.
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Old 05-06-22, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
fify.
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Old 05-06-22, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Is Thor joining? If so, good thing there's a mountain bike theme! Not sure if the Olmo will be back on the road by then.
Of course he is! I could lend him a bike if the Olmo doesn't get back together, though I'm guessing that he might be a little reticent to borrow any more equipment from me.
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Old 05-07-22, 10:53 AM
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I have to go back to Eroica …

… because I’m running out of marmalade!



Linn’s Meyer Lemon Marmalade
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Old 05-07-22, 07:17 PM
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I appreciate hearing all the stories and discussion of Eroica, and of Cino. Thank you all for sharing them.

None of the accounts of this year's disorganization would deter me, although they would encourage proper planning and near self-support. The cost paid to the organizers seem that it would be small compared to food and lodging for the weekend.

But I have the advantage of being local. Tourica sounds even better, if I ever get bike, fitness, and free time to align.
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Old 05-07-22, 08:15 PM
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I have a questions for the locals. Me not going to a ****** ride is easy, no need to schlep across country for something like that. There was a local ride to me that once was a great ride - hilly challenge ride, fantastic scenery, little to no cars, great food, great support, not a hammerfest. I even organized a vintage show at the ride. Then the organization went to hell and I won't do it anymore. I self-support if I want to ride the area. There is alternative great local ride (absolutely the best food ever at a bike ride) where I can ride a vintage bike. I'm sure I'll get a couple three patsies to gone in.

West coast has the Rose Bowl ride, Brian Bayliss ride. Bob Freeman has an annual shindig. I see things organized by the OP. San Diego swap meet. There are plenty of opportunities to see old bikes, old friends and make new friends locally. I'd argue Cino is "local". It is at least to me and I had a great time at Cino.

So my question is, why in the **** do you put up with ECA? Is it the marketing bs?
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Old 05-07-22, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I have a questions for the locals.

So my question is, why in the **** do you put up with ECA? Is it the marketing bs?
I guess I'm marginally a local, having spent half my life in the Bay Area (close enough), and Portland isn't that far away.

I guess for me it's "fool me thrice, shame on me." I agree with your sentiment.

I guess ECA taught me that riding in SLO County around early May is a great thing to do. Last September we proved that a good time could be had all without handing over $150 to some Italians who don't know how to organize a ride to my satisfaction.
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Old 05-07-22, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SquireBlack View Post
… because I’m running out of marmalade!
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Old 05-08-22, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
riding in SLO County around early May is a great thing to do.
I'm sure it is. But I'm also guessing there is great riding pretty much most everywhere. I can show you a lot of great riding local to me. So "provides a lovely place to ride a bike." is not exclusive by any means. With your events, are the areas where you ride dangerous and ugly?

After thinking about my question, the only answer I have is bigger must be better. And in that case, I would heed the advice of Public Enemy.
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Old 05-08-22, 05:46 AM
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A difference between the two events is the bike show/concourse and vendor swap at ECA. Some people clearly attend just for those parts with little intention to ride an old bike. Lots of chatter on the CR list about the organizing difficulties of those elements at this year’s ECA or more specifically the lack of support from the organizers. For whatever reason, I’m finding myself less and less interested in ogling old bikes or scanning through piles of old bike parts that pretty much looks like the contents of my basement bins. In one sense, Cino is designed for riders, while ECA is for riders, buyers, sellers, and oglers.
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Old 05-08-22, 06:45 AM
  #49  
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I’ll start by saying that we at Cino are humbled by your praise and do appreciate all of your feedback. Reed and the rest of the original crew never felt threatened by L’Eroica (despite the cease and desist request over the name ) or even competitive, they were only inspired by them. I sometimes worry that people will expect the level of organization at a big, major event and have a city mouse in the country reaction. But I think our advertising (or lack thereof) and word of mouth paint a pretty accurate picture.

As for comparisons, I believe the apples-to-oranges description is the best - one should experience both. Besides, it’s not a zero-sum game. More is better.

As far as locality, I get that. Locality is one major reason I have not made it to ECA yet (and timing - being a teacher limits mid-year breaks). A lot of people who live in MT do so because it’s far away from everywhere else (although telecommuting has brought us a lot closer for better or worse).

I also have to thank all of you who have spread the word about Cino. (Despite Gugie’s heroic efforts I don’t think we have to worry about it selling out this year!) You help keep it going! I’ll share a short story that illustrates what many have grasped already:

During one of my early Cinos about a decade ago, I overheard someone comment to their friend that, “with the right organization, this could really be made into a big event.” My gut reaction was, “No! It’s perfect just the way it is!” In retrospect, I think we have maintained the spirit of what many of us enjoy, a fun, intimate ride with our tribe. But in a way, thanks to many of you, we have become a big event - the biggest little event in the west. Thank you!

Cheers!
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Old 05-08-22, 07:15 AM
  #50  
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Early on, Eroica CA was for complaining about the rules. Now its for complaining about the weather. No one complains about Cino.
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