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Cino vs Eroica California

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Cino vs Eroica California

Old 05-08-22, 07:36 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
A difference between the two events is the bike show/concourse and vendor swap at ECA. Some people clearly attend just for those parts with little intention to ride an old bike. Lots of chatter on the CR list about the organizing difficulties of those elements at this year’s ECA or more specifically the lack of support from the organizers. For whatever reason, I’m finding myself less and less interested in ogling old bikes or scanning through piles of old bike parts that pretty much looks like the contents of my basement bins. In one sense, Cino is designed for riders, while ECA is for riders, buyers, sellers, and oglers.
That's funny. I oogled and bought at Cino. Never sold, but that's my problem.
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Old 05-08-22, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I'm sure it is. But I'm also guessing there is great riding pretty much most everywhere. I can show you a lot of great riding local to me. So "provides a lovely place to ride a bike." is not exclusive by any means. With your events, are the areas where you ride dangerous and ugly?

After thinking about my question, the only answer I have is bigger must be better. And in that case, I would heed the advice of Public Enemy.
Well, I know you've done Cino. Chicago is 1600 miles from you. Cambria (Eroica California site) is about half that distance from me, so I could throw that question back at you!

I think my threads on riding in the PNW speak for themselves. In short, I feel it's bicycling heaven, but we do have this thing up here we like to call liquid sunshine for over half of the year. When it's pissing rain up here, warm, dry California looks like a great place to ride. In addition, I have friends around the US who I like to get together with on occassion for a bicycling vacation. At the Palazzo this year we had 3 from Portland, Oregon, two from Virginia, and one from Massachussets. If we wanted to get together and ride in late April, early May, is there a better place for us to meet? You may disagree, but 6 of us voted no.

I think perhaps our common ground is that we have a an aversion to big, organized rides. Maybe we should just leave it at that.
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Old 05-08-22, 11:27 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
So my question is, why in the **** do you put up with ECA? Is it the marketing bs?
Yes

More is more, bikes, people, parts, concourse, vendors, etc, more, more, more, bigger is better, blah, blah, blah.

Here's one of the big things for me, this year I met Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster fame who was there with obrentharris, never going to meet some of the greats like him without the chance meeting at an event like Eroica and Cino for that matter without going to them specifically.

These kinds of things are golden to me and well worth the effort despite the chaos and disorganization that will always plague events big and small.

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Old 05-08-22, 11:28 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
That's funny. I oogled and bought at Cino. Never sold, but that's my problem.
No swap at last year’s Cino—unless it was a clandestine affair.
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Old 05-08-22, 12:13 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Well, I know you've done Cino. Chicago is 1600 miles from you. Cambria (Eroica California site) is about half that distance from me, so I could throw that question back at you!

I think my threads on riding in the PNW speak for themselves. In short, I feel it's bicycling heaven, but we do have this thing up here we like to call liquid sunshine for over half of the year. When it's pissing rain up here, warm, dry California looks like a great place to ride. In addition, I have friends around the US who I like to get together with on occassion for a bicycling vacation. At the Palazzo this year we had 3 from Portland, Oregon, two from Virginia, and one from Massachussets. If we wanted to get together and ride in late April, early May, is there a better place for us to meet? You may disagree, but 6 of us voted no.

I think perhaps our common ground is that we have a an aversion to big, organized rides. Maybe we should just leave it at that.
I'm not saying ECA is not a place to meet and ride, my point is it is not the only place to meet and ride. With endless choices, as I pointed out only a few, why choose a poorly organized and executed event? Why make excuses for a **** show?
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Old 05-08-22, 12:15 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
No swap at last year’s Cino—unless it was a clandestine affair.
Any time vintagistas meet, there is opportunity to swap. Not everything needs a bow.
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Old 05-08-22, 12:23 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Yes

More is more, bikes, people, parts, concourse, vendors, etc, more, more, more, bigger is better, blah, blah, blah.

Here's one of the big things for me, this year I met Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster fame who was there with obrentharris, never going to meet some of the greats like him without the chance meeting at an event like Eroica and Cino for that matter without going to them specifically.

These kinds of things are golden to me and well worth the effort despite the chaos and disorganization that will always plague events big and small.
Is Mr. Sadoff the only person to meet? Again, other events, other cycling dignitaries. I'm not saying it isn't/wasn't awesome to meet Mr. Sadoff and perhaps that is enough to go to ECA. I very much enjoyed meeting Peter Johnson at BAMF and CR Weekend. Except the experince was that much better because both events were not only about that chance meeting.
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Old 05-08-22, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I'm not saying ECA is not a place to meet and ride, my point is it is not the only place to meet and ride. With endless choices, as I pointed out only a few, why choose a poorly organized and executed event? Why make excuses for a **** show?
100% Agreed. I haven't been one of the people making excuses, on the contrary I've been one of the bigger bashers. The only reason I did it this year is a)timing b)a group of us decided months ago to meet at ECA and c)they'd held my entry fee for 3 years, no way to get it back, so between b and c, we just did it. I just hope my posts, and others on the subject serve as a PSA.

We're already talking about returning next year, just not the weekend of ECA.
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Old 05-08-22, 01:16 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
Is Mr. Sadoff the only person to meet? Again, other events, other cycling dignitaries. I'm not saying it isn't/wasn't awesome to meet Mr. Sadoff and perhaps that is enough to go to ECA. I very much enjoyed meeting Peter Johnson at BAMF and CR Weekend. Except the experince was that much better because both events were not only about that chance meeting.
No, not the only one, indicative of the possibility, Peter Johnson would have been a real treat.

That's my point, you never know but you have to show up for it to happen.

Absolutely not disagreeing with the poor job done by the organization but that can be secondary depending on your expectations for yourself.
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Old 05-08-22, 01:24 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I'm not saying ECA is not a place to meet and ride, my point is it is not the only place to meet and ride. With endless choices, as I pointed out only a few, why choose a poorly organized and executed event? Why make excuses for a **** show?
And also not making excuses, but pointing out there are things like meeting people and drooling over great bikes that don't have to be overshadowed by p*** poor performance of the company. You can redirect your enthusiasm to other things and reconcile the ride to whatever it turned out to be for you.

It's a fantastic opportunity to engage in your own way despite the other chaos that ensues.
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Old 05-08-22, 02:40 PM
  #61  
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From my limited experience, comment #49 sums up the difference nicely.

…….if you can actually sum a difference?
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Old 05-08-22, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
Any time vintagistas meet, there is opportunity to swap. Not everything needs a bow.
If everything had a bow, would we hear the constant complaining?
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Old 05-08-22, 04:56 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Here's one of the big things for me, this year I met Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster fame who was there with obrentharris, never going to meet some of the greats like him without the chance meeting at an event like Eroica and Cino for that matter without going to them specifically.
Oddly the first time that I met Paul was at the first Eroica, I had lined up at the start next to him (and Bruce Gordon, whom I had met before) and we talked for several minutes before we introduced ourselves. Here's a pic (borrowed from Red Kite Prayer).....I'm in the INRNG cap and Cino jersey.



I have met Paul twice since then, both times at NAHBS. If you really want me to meet a number of famous builders, NAHBS is the place to go. It's not vintage oriented but there is no other place to meet a huge number of builders in one place. NAHBS was where I had previously met Bruce.
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Old 05-08-22, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Choke View Post
Oddly the first time that I met Paul was at the first Eroica, I had lined up at the start next to him (and Bruce Gordon, whom I had met before) and we talked for several minutes before we introduced ourselves. Here's a pic (borrowed from Red Kite Prayer).....I'm in the INRNG cap and Cino jersey.



I have met Paul twice since then, both times at NAHBS. If you really want me to meet a number of famous builders, NAHBS is the place to go. It's not vintage oriented but there is no other place to meet a huge number of builders in one place. NAHBS was where I had previously met Bruce.
H**Y CRAP!

You hit the jackpot IMO, lining up and riding with these guys.

Yep, been to NAHBS a couple of times and meeting builders there is a given, met Gordon, DiNucci, Ritchey, seen many others, Newlands, Merz and plenty lesser known as well.

Also have met several at Oregon builders shows, Jeff Bock, Paul Ketelaar from Australia and others.

Living in PDX also means you can visit many others right here, Bob Kamzelski of Bantam worked for Bilenky for several years before coming here to setup shop, Joseph Ahearne, Chris Igleheart, Tony Pereira, Ira Ryan of Breadwinner, Andy Newlands of Strawberry, Vanilla, Dave Levy at TiCycles. All of them and many others as well as suppliers and a long history ensure that we are a mecca/epicenter of the framebuilding universe as we have been for over 50 years.

I'm all about it, hence my ongoing discussion here, you don't even have to ride Eroica to have a fantastic time talking and hanging out with like minded folks.

You really don't have to participate in the chaos if you don't want to, but you should ride your bike there no matter what.
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Old 05-08-22, 10:40 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by majmt View Post
My wife says that Cino riders are better looking, so there’s that.
I'm a Cino rider. Your wife is wrong. I'm hideous. That said, Cino is a hoot. The appeal of a Cino ride is that its fun, its hard, and lots of great people show up who don't need much more than a jersey, a stinky hotel, and a change to snog a cow or a goat on the course. Yes, a cow or a goat. . I loathe pretense, ergo sum, I love Cino
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Old 05-08-22, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
I'm going to chime in just to say Eroica CA will be a loss when it goes. I was not overly impressed this year but for all the complaining, be careful what you wish for.

Any one that has not gone to this should go before its gone and it may be already if the organizers listen to the unsatisfied.
Agree. This is not an either/or proposition. We should really all hope that both succeed. Totally different animals, but both add value to the vintage bike world.

​​​​​​Eroica CA is a hot mess in comparison to L'Eroica Italy or Britannia when it comes to organization and logistical support. But, I'm still pretty thrilled to have a nice weekend on the California coast with hundreds of kindred spirits, a decent swap meet, a fun concours, and did I mention the California coast?

I'm glad that it's here, and hope that it stays. I definitely plan on returning next year I'd also love to try Cino at some point as well, if fatherhood and work ever permit!

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Old 05-08-22, 11:27 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Choke View Post
Oddly the first time that I met Paul was at the first Eroica, I had lined up at the start next to him (and Bruce Gordon, whom I had met before) and we talked for several minutes before we introduced ourselves. Here's a pic (borrowed from Red Kite Prayer).....I'm in the INRNG cap and Cino jersey.



I have met Paul twice since then, both times at NAHBS. If you really want me to meet a number of famous builders, NAHBS is the place to go. It's not vintage oriented but there is no other place to meet a huge number of builders in one place. NAHBS was where I had previously met Bruce.
AND, this is a fantastic pic of the man himself, tx for sharing it.

Here's another from long ago when he broke from Eisentraut and moved to Eugene OR for about 10 years to go it alone and hang out with these guys in PDX on occasion.




Gordon, DiNucci and Merz riding from Jim's shop.
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Old 05-09-22, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bibliobob View Post
Agree. This is not an either/or proposition. We should really all hope that both succeed. Totally different animals, but both add value to the vintage bike world.

​​​​​​Eroica CA is a hot mess in comparison to L'Eroica Italy or Britannia when it comes to organization and logistical support. But, I'm still pretty thrilled to have a nice weekend on the California coast with hundreds of kindred spirits, a decent swap meet, a fun concours, and did I mention the California coast? I'm glad that it's here, and hope that it stays. I'd love to try Cino at some point as well, fatherhood and work ever permit!
We're not used to being the red headed stepchild, they likely saw us as a payday, then had a few misteps, COVID, venue change and here we are.

The "real" ones over there are much more well attended and therefore far more well supported. On top of this they have far more support and understanding from the europeans that have it in their blood, far more amenable to any struggles and challenges of which I imagine there are far fewer of.
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Old 05-09-22, 12:16 AM
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And another.


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Old 05-09-22, 09:47 AM
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All,
being a European myself, English, and having now lived in the States 30 years, in my opinion there is quite a cultural difference between Americans and we English, and also other Europeans, its part of what makes America great, that rebel spirit if you will, then enter stage left an Italian organization that likes things its own way... History has a few examples of how they handle things, think Famous Italian Car Maker - Ford for example. This week i was watching a you tube video about modern cars whereby an Englishman of considerable wealth had ordered a new Italian car and paid the required deposit which i imagine would have been substantial, they had made him wait many many months and possibly years and delivery was no where in sight, he eventually cancelled when a newer model which superseded his order had been released, he mused as to why this had played out like that, he proposed that he was being punished for some slight that they had perceived.

Enter stage right, a group of US cyclists, mostly older, irritable and set in their ways, you see whats coming here, the Italians are an unusual culture, style primarily over function, they like things their way, have to admit they have made a huge contribution to cycling history, they have a lot of flair and style, i don't know and have not heard why EC was moved to Cambria and was the former organizer Wes is no longer involved, as a Newbie all i saw was a great cycling event with a ton of potential to build on, i find it disappointing to hear people on here bash it, some of those bashing it didn't go this year and said they wouldn't go again, seems odd to bash an event you didn't go to based on a previous experience pre-covid,

I see that the full credit given by Eroica from previous registrations as a commitment to EC, if you wanted to bail now would have been the time to get out using covid to blame, and then give someone a credit to online goods or a future event that they may never go to and tough if you don't want to go...

I'll restate what i said in another post, without the marketing strength of Eroica, i never would have made it to the west coast for cycling, that can have a huge economic impact to that area, not me.. but people like me talking about it to other folks, who may not even be cyclists, that may or may not come to the area for a visit.

also all this talk of smaller regional events is all well and good for those who live within travelling distance to those events, but these smaller events whilst they may be fantastic are not really open to the public or people like me, it feels very closed shop.. meaning we only want people we know... and as a previous poster mentioned when talking of his local event it used to be good then it all went to H***... that can happen to any event that gets a few people attend...
So a few have said this but it bears repeating... BOTH ARE GOOD!!!
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Old 05-09-22, 11:22 AM
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@Gary12000 - but Ford after being rebuffed by Enzo as he wanted to keep running the race team... Ford just bought and developed their way to LeMans victory thanks to Lola, Holam and Moody and Shelby etal.
Then later Lamborghini when upset with Ferrari factory service built his own car company.

I think if there had not been an event, can you spell class action lawsuit? "take the money and run" is not a good look.
The discovery would be Bad in appearance.
Participants did receive a 2020 mini poster and out of date coffee package. And rider and bike number. Maybe a participation medal-ette?
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Old 05-09-22, 11:35 AM
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Gary, your perspective is appreciated. Not sure I go along with all of the generalities presented therein, but we’re all friends here.
With regard to some of the smaller events and how one finds out about them and participates, well, you are in the right place! BF is where I found out about the Bartali and Coppi Centenario celebrations (thanks again, IAB!), the Dairyland Dare, and a bunch of other smaller rides where I was more than welcomed as a participant. So stick around and you’ll eventually find yourself presented with more opportunities than you have vacation time to enjoy them.
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Old 05-09-22, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
@Gary12000 - but Ford after being rebuffed by Enzo as he wanted to keep running the race team... Ford just bought and developed their way to LeMans victory thanks to Lola, Holam and Moody and Shelby etal.
Then later Lamborghini when upset with Ferrari factory service built his own car company.

I think if there had not been an event, can you spell class action lawsuit? "take the money and run" is not a good look.
The discovery would be Bad in appearance.
Participants did receive a 2020 mini poster and out of date coffee package. And rider and bike number. Maybe a participation medal-ette?

The poster and medal and coffee being aged lol i had to smirk a little when i got home and finally studied the swag.. in fact i'm drinking a cup a Joe from that packet as i write its quite tasty despite the date being only a year past ...
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Old 05-09-22, 12:18 PM
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Gary12000 
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Gary, your perspective is appreciated. Not sure I go along with all of the generalities presented therein, but we’re all friends here.
With regard to some of the smaller events and how one finds out about them and participates, well, you are in the right place! BF is where I found out about the Bartali and Coppi Centenario celebrations (thanks again, IAB!), the Dairyland Dare, and a bunch of other smaller rides where I was more than welcomed as a participant. So stick around and you’ll eventually find yourself presented with more opportunities than you have vacation time to enjoy them.
Doc,
Did i mention older and set in my ways and liking things my way lol .. certainly you are correct i discovered this BF and i think it will be a key to assisting in my cycling adventures, however i was surprised and how many people i spoke with over EC weekend that were not on the forum..

It was great to meet all you guys iv'e got a lot to learn..

G
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Old 05-09-22, 12:25 PM
  #75  
Andy_K 
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I think Gary makes a good point about participation in public vs. private events. With a "private" event, even with an open and public invitation, if I don't know anyone who is going, I'm not likely to go. I've found the BF crowd to be universally welcoming and friendly, but each person must develop their own sense of comfort with that. It's much easier to be one of many people showing up at an event and meeting new people than it is to be (possibly) the only new person in a small group of people who all know each other already.

Of course, this can easily go the other way. I've shown up at a lot of large events where literally everyone there has seemed to have come as part of a small group that had no interest in talking to other people. STP is like this. You can go out and ride for two days with 5000 people and come away having made no new friends and at most talked to a handful of people at the food lines. With ECA, we've always got a thread here talking about who is going and making plans to meet each other. Apart from that, I can easily see ECA being an impersonal experience for introverts. That has absolutely nothing to do with the Italians and everything to do with the people who go. I haven't been to Cino, but everything I've heard about it has made it sound extremely welcoming.
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