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Cinelli SC Monza

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Cinelli SC Monza

Old 06-08-22, 03:59 PM
  #26  
repechage
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Mercenary

"any info appreciated". Yep, a pat on the back sort of.

so it goes
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Old 06-08-22, 04:28 PM
  #27  
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Oh baby oh baby oh baby.. Put some big tires on me and lets get dirty
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Old 06-08-22, 07:24 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Mercenary

"any info appreciated". Yep, a pat on the back sort of.

so it goes
So wait, I can’t ask questions in a classic and vintage forum about a classic/vintage bike and also put said bike up for sale?

I am definitely not trying to be be malicious and generally interested in the history of these bikes because the story behind them is somewhat of a mystery. I did post it on Ebay however, because extra money for more bikes is always good. 😃

Last edited by purebikes; 06-08-22 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 06-08-22, 07:41 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
So wait, I can’t ask questions in a classic and vintage forum about a classic/vintage bike and also put said bike up for sale?
He didn't write that. Why are you so defensive?
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Old 06-08-22, 07:43 PM
  #30  
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Thought I saw it last week on FB for $2k
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Old 06-08-22, 07:44 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
He didn't write that. Why are you so defensive?
“Mercenary” isn’t necessarily a good term
in my opinion
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Old 06-08-22, 07:53 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
“Mercenary” isn’t necessarily a good term
in my opinion
Then what would you call a quick flip of $4K?
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Old 06-08-22, 07:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
Then what would you call a quick flip of $4K?
Smart.
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Old 06-08-22, 08:04 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
Then what would you call a quick flip of $4K?
Jeez. I buy and sell bikes sometimes, this isn’t warfare. Also, not too sure how “quick” of a filp it’s going to be, but you have to aim high right
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Old 06-08-22, 08:07 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by satbuilder View Post
Thought I saw it last week on FB for $2k
You did, and I bought it for $2k
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Old 06-09-22, 08:22 AM
  #36  
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I think the reactions are interesting. From what I can see they are divided in:

1. Someone posted pictures of a very interesting bike asking for more info on it. The buyer is dealing in bikes and that upsets some people. Using the forum for commercial gain I presume is the "problem".
2. The poster bought it at 2000 USD and wants to sell it for a substantial profit.
3. The poster wants to sell it close in time from when he bought it.
And maybe a combination of all of the above.

My take on it is:
1. His nick is "purebikes" and he has been registred here for a long time. Not a lot of posts (for that many years) but under his nick there is abanner clearly saying "sales, service, restoration". For me that makes all the difference. He did not post under false flag. If members here in contributing to his (and everyones) knowledge and in the end resulting in a higher profit for his enterprise he has nothing to be ashamed of.

2. It was not 200 USD. It was 2000. It was a substantial amount of money he put in. Then he wants a lot more for it when he sells. He is trying the market. The market decides if he spent too much or if he made a score - or something in between. As a Swede and European I have always thought this is the basis of the US - a free market and a land of opportunity. Unless when it comes to vintage bikes...(?). I would have expected it here in Sweden... ;-) I say good on him if he makes a profit. He is going to spend that money on something else and that is what keeps the wheel(s) spinning.

3. Nothing to add. I posted just the other day about my Bianchi X4 score. I paid probably half of what the international value is. If I sell it next week to someone very keen and interested and double my money or in 10 years - does it really matter?

I posted earlier in this thread, well informed (by the banner), the OP deals in vintage bikes. I wrote I was jealous. About finding such a nice and historically interesting bike. Knowing the OP sells it for a profit does not change that at all. Any vintage bike that is taken care of and is pulled in to the loop of interested caring people/collectors gets a lot better life than the same bike being bought for 200 USD and ending up in commuter hell and then gets stolen by a drunk student going home from a party...

Live and let live.
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Old 06-09-22, 09:27 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
Jeez. I buy and sell bikes sometimes, this isn’t warfare. Also, not too sure how “quick” of a filp it’s going to be, but you have to aim high right
While styggno1 makes good points, what they didn't point out that you never once offered thanks for the information provided in this thread. I'm certain no one cares about buying & selling, we all do it. But if you start a thread asking for help, receive such help to guide you in the sale of the bike, the very least you can do is say thanks. Not offering a common curtesy fits well in the definition of mercenary.
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Old 06-09-22, 09:44 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
While styggno1 makes good points, what they didn't point out that you never once offered thanks for the information provided in this thread. I'm certain no one cares about buying & selling, we all do it. But if you start a thread asking for help, receive such help to guide you in the sale of the bike, the very least you can do is say thanks. Not offering a common curtesy fits well in the definition of mercenary.
Good point. That I agree on fully (edit - maybe not the mercenary bit). I did not think about it this time as I did not contribute at all but I have dwelled on it often enough when I have taken time and thought in helping someone and never heard from them ever again. To the point of not doing it as much as earlier. More locally than here and more in other hobbies.

He still has the chance.

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Old 06-09-22, 10:51 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
While styggno1 makes good points, what they didn't point out that you never once offered thanks for the information provided in this thread. I'm certain no one cares about buying & selling, we all do it. But if you start a thread asking for help, receive such help to guide you in the sale of the bike, the very least you can do is say thanks. Not offering a common curtesy fits well in the definition of mercenary.
If that is what you were really upset about you would have probably mentioned that in your last post instead of the "quick flip" comment, but come on, still with the mercenary?...

Sincerely though, I do appreciate all the knowledge on this forum. I have learned a lot from members here and thank everyone for contributing.
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Old 06-09-22, 11:03 AM
  #40  
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Back to the matter at hand, and just to re-cap all the back and forth above: I am seeking knowledge on this bike for my benefit and everyone else's, I bought it for 2k, I am trying to sell it for substantially more than that on Ebay. Any help is appreciated.

So it has been brought to my attention that this might be a "fake" Monza. Apparently there were some fakes made in a French shop in the 70's with original decals. The story goes that they took some Cinell SC's, repainted them and badged them as Monza's. They even went as far as to paint the chromed head lugs. They were red like this one with the white headtube, which Cinelli apparently never did.

This brings up so many questions in my mind. This would only make sense if Monza's were more popular that the standard SC's. But, if that were the case, then why did they lose popularity to the point where no one remembers them or why they were made? I would think that if they were popular in the 70's then there would at least be more info on them today. Also, why would you paint a chromed head lug when you were already going to paint the head tube a different color. This doesn't save any masking time or expedite the paint.

(Edit) Also this was somehow associated with the Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bike Shop having sold some original Monza decals to a guy in France. So if he had original Monza decals and was a seller/importer of Cinelli, couldn't just have been that he had the Monza badges made for him? I mean if the story were true... But why would a French guy want the decals in the late 70's to make fakes?

Anyway, just another mystery to add to the pile, which is why I like finding and working on classic bikes.
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Last edited by purebikes; 06-09-22 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 06-09-22, 11:26 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
I am still a little in shock that this came up locally and in my size! Still has the Cinelli bar tape and plugs! The crank looks like it could be a replacement but everything else looks original. Supposedly there were only made in 61 but any info is appreciated.
∆∆∆∆∆∆∆
This, from the OP, in my opinion, is thanks enough and more than you usually get on these types of threads. Carry on

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Old 06-09-22, 11:45 AM
  #42  
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OP, I always figured the easiest and quickest way to find out what the market will bear for such a rare gem would be to just throw it up on ebay and see what happens. That is what you're in business for. All the junk I sell I'm just thrilled to break even
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Old 06-09-22, 01:04 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
So wait, I can’t ask questions in a classic and vintage forum about a classic/vintage bike and also put said bike up for sale?

I am definitely not trying to be be malicious and generally interested in the history of these bikes because the story behind them is somewhat of a mystery. I did post it on Ebay however, because extra money for more bikes is always good. 😃
the initial post read, essentially "in my size". indicates you might be interested in retaining it for you personal use, there was no indication of a resale.
If, it was presented that, "it's my size but I could use some help from those who are knowledgeable as I have enough invested in it to consider reselling it at some point..."
That would have been reasonable and upstanding.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.
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Old 06-09-22, 01:08 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
perhaps he was a for profit enterprise.
Right, but the only reason to make a fake of something is if it is more sought after than what you already have. So the question is why would you take some Cinelli SC's, track down some obscure decals from the states and ship them to France, repaint the frames (including the chrome lugs), put the stickers on and then sell them as Monza's, unless you could have sold them them for significantly more than an original SC. And if that was the case in the late 70's, then why don't we know more about the original Monza's? I guess the frames in question could have been unpainted but that seems odd.

Again, I am supposing the story is true and thinking out loud.
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Old 06-09-22, 01:58 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
the initial post read, essentially "in my size". indicates you might be interested in retaining it for you personal use, there was no indication of a resale.
If, it was presented that, "it's my size but I could use some help from those who are knowledgeable as I have enough invested in it to consider reselling it at some point..."
That would have been reasonable and upstanding.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Y'all "assumed" (and we all know what that means) that he was going to keep it when he said it was in his size. He wasn't obligated to tell you one single detail about what he had in mind for the bike. In this example, "Say what you mean and mean what you say" is inapplicable, since he didn't "say" anything about his intentions or lack thereof.

I think I'm seeing a few sour grapes here.

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Old 06-09-22, 03:17 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
the initial post read, essentially "in my size". indicates you might be interested in retaining it for you personal use, there was no indication of a resale.
If, it was presented that, "it's my size but I could use some help from those who are knowledgeable as I have enough invested in it to consider reselling it at some point..."
That would have been reasonable and upstanding.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Sorry that what you assumed I meant was wrong but you shouldn't start throwing names around because you misunderstood. I did say what I meant, It is my size and I was surprised it showed up locally. I did a search on here before going to pick it up and read through all the past posts about the Cinelli Monza's, so I knew somewhat of the history or at least lack thereof. I mostly started this thread so people could see another example. 2k for a bike is a lot of money, so if I am going to spend that much on a bike, I always make sure I can at least ride it if it doesn't sell. If this was a 60cm or a 52cm I wouldn't have bought it. And I know it's lovely and some of you would never let it go, but I put most of the bikes I own up for sale with very few exceptions. I am obviously just testing the demand to see where the value is, but if someone wants to buy it for 6k I will gladly let it go. That doesn't mean that I am not interested in learning about the history of it or figuring out the mystery, because I am.

If someone potentially selling or not selling something has that much bearing on if you participate, how about you ask them their plans before you provide any input, then there won't be any confusion. They obviously also have the right to tell you to get lost..
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Old 06-09-22, 08:41 PM
  #47  
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You missed my point.
if you had been upfront, bought the bike, ignoring the actual price, but noting it was a significant amount and you May not keep it, but wish to know more, fair enough, truthful possibly and most if not all comments would have been provided anyway.

the "my size" comment at the onset does imply personal appeal. The appeal it turns out is the lure for easy money. So it goes.
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Old 06-09-22, 09:09 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
They obviously also have the right to tell you to get lost..
Sooo, yes, no, maybe.

A certain amount of decorum is implied, when your ultimate goal is to sell for a tidy profit, that should be the first and main disclosure.

When its not and you don't but instead seem to be asking for help, hat in hand we dig in and offer it up.

At that point any misdirection actually implied or perceived is and will be disappointing and likely to illicit reactions in kind.

Most of us here probably wouldn't have gone after this at that price so I applaud your hutzpah for doing so and hope you get to your goal.

I also recognized some of this and checked your history earlier on and figured it might end up here.

I would encourage you to full disclosure upfront next time and don't think it will matter on the responses but after the fact can be very different as we see here.

Just my 2c and just sayin, I'll go get lost now.
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Old 06-09-22, 09:30 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
The story goes that they took some Cinell SC's, repainted them and badged them as Monza's.
Well that's going to really bring the price down, isn't it?
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Old 06-10-22, 02:53 AM
  #50  
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I know there are those that “flip for profit” and that is fine….I guess. Most of us are in it because it is a hobby and we just really like cool bikes. There are definitely different approaches to vintage bikes. I got out of the whole vintage Porsche club because it became more about how much financial gain someone could achieve than about the history of the car. I think that is what is trying to be conveyed. I have gotten some really nice bikes and parts for well below market that I either keep for future builds or trade for something I need but never profiting financially because I’m a “hobby” guy.
Also, after posting this , I reread your original post and the opening statement “in my size” implies the idea that this was something you were going to keep and enjoy. Clearly you saw dollar signs.

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