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Please Stop Being So Cheap!

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Please Stop Being So Cheap!

Old 06-27-22, 04:29 AM
  #26  
Maohaus
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Bravo Kilroy1988, for pointing out and calling out the forum. There are a variety of interests and intents within this community and I often see examples of what you are pointing out. As to valuations, the worst examples come from the "flippers" who mostly view a vintage bike as a means to make a quick buck and put no emotional value on the purchase. I think it would be helpful if folks would suggest a range of value based upon scrapping out a bike versus someone who wants to acquire or restore a bike.
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Old 06-27-22, 06:22 AM
  #27  
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It could be better to scrap the valuation forum all together. Let people do their own research. No reason for people to lend their time/assistance so others can benefit. Or, maybe the OP can become the moderator of the thread with the responsibility falling squarely on his/her shoulders. If a valuation comes back skewed one way or another, he/she can take full blame for it.
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Old 06-27-22, 07:07 AM
  #28  
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First, when someone seeks an appraisal, give an appraisal. As often as not and even more often than not, forum members will chime in without offering an appraisal. What is the point?

I try to give an appraisal when asked to do so. Appraisals are hard to offer since size, make, model, condition and location all play a part in a bike's value. Even the seller's market skills or (in Canada time of year) play a part in a bike's value. With that in mind, I do what little I can to understand the market area in question. In Thunder Bay, a small city with almost no vintage bike market, I would value a bike at much less than one offered in Toronto or Vancouver. I would not pay a penny more than $100.00 CND for this near mint Trek in Thunder Bay...


If I were buying that Trek in Toronto, I would be OK with paying up to $250.00, which is what I offered it for when I went to sell it on Kijiji in Thunder Bay (a few buyers expressed interest)...


And when I do appraise, I tell the OP what I would pay for the bike in question and what I would sell it for, were it mine. I was asking $250.00 CND for the Trek in Thunder Bay but ended up giving it to one of my grand kids (he rides it all over the place). That is not to say that I am accurate but at least I have tried to answer his or her "what is it worth" question.

In closing, though I usually feel uncomfortable doing so, I advise buyers to simply pass on a given bike offered for sale. I try to help define the quality level, ranging from entry level to top dog in the kennel. If I am aware of any real deficiencies, I try to report them (I loved my ALAN but it was, for lack of a better description, a noodle. It was far to flexy for someone my size and strength and I report that)...


All in all, I think that the Appraisal forum has value but only if those appraising do so with integrity, educated fact and compassion. I would feel bad if it were to be tossed. Why? Because in days gone bye, people have paid me wayyyyy too much for bikes or frame sets that I have sold them. This is not because I am greedy. In the past I would put a bike or frame set up for auction on Ebay. What ever it fetched, it fetched. Sometimes I lost money when I had to honor an auction result, letting a Legnano frame/fork set go for $37.00...


And sometimes getting over a thousand for a lowly Raleigh Record that was not worth the price of a big case of (Canadian) beer (this is the transaction that helped me to decide to build MY "TEN SPEEDS", a website designed to help educate uninformed buyers before they paid wayyyy too much) And, yes, I honored the auction result in both cases...
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Old 06-27-22, 07:35 AM
  #29  
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This happens in all types of forums across the internet. Most of the folks have found, inherited, bought cheaply, a bicycle, car, motorcycle, stereo turntable, and truly want to hear, they got the holy grail. Many types of forums have valuation sections, because folks starting threads of "How much is this worth" and never post again gets old. I do agree, folks with no experience or knowledge, should not reply. I don't usually replay. But, the forum does have value. But, folks can do the foot work. eBay is not hard to navigate. Understanding, that if they plan on pricing it for a garage sale, an eBay price will automatically let the item sit. Also, they need to understand an eBay asking price, is not the same as an eBay sold price.

Last edited by kermie; 06-27-22 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 06-27-22, 07:46 AM
  #30  
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.... I can't say my evaluations are worth much. All my bikes are worth less than I paid for them. But I do read the local Craigslist from time to time. Which is how I know that all my bikes are worth less than I paid for them.
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Old 06-27-22, 08:03 AM
  #31  
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Here's my take on this issue of valuation. I have noticed some offering up what I consider low estimates of value. I think they are stating what THEY would pay, given that they are probably going to FLIP THE BIKE. And so that valuation is necessarily going to be less than what the ordinary person on the street would expect.

So it might be helpful for someone to explicitly state that their valuation reflects what they would need to acquire the bike for in order to maximize profit. It then stands to reason that the person state what they ultimately would list the bike for after cleaning, maintenance, replacements, etc.
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Old 06-27-22, 08:03 AM
  #32  
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Bikes I own and want to sell are always under valued.

Bikes I want to buy are always over valued.

YMMV
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Old 06-27-22, 08:06 AM
  #33  
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Quoting a maximum known sale price is providing a disservice to the potential buyer or seller. Just because there is a known case of that sale price, that does not mean that it is a realistic sale price. Due to unknown factors, there will always be outliers, both far in excess of, and also far below, the typical selling price. The probability of an another seller obtaining the maximum price is extremely small and the statistical odds state that they will most likely have to settle for a much reduced price. In my opinion, most members who frequent the appraisals section provide honest estimates that are close to what, in their experience, is an average selling price and not some extreme.

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Old 06-27-22, 08:09 AM
  #34  
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Selling a bike on eBay is a fairly involved process between the photographing, listing, feedback, packing, shipping, liabilities, etc . If one needs to come here and ask for a price and expects an outlier high dollar ebay return then they should develop the competency to look up the sold prices on ebay. If they can't do a sold price search themselves then it is unlikely that they will be able to sell it successfully on eBay for top dollar and should align price expectations for a local sale. It is certainly possible to get that top dollar if they put in the work and time to sell properly but it unlikely someone with little to no prior experience will get it.
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Old 06-27-22, 08:28 AM
  #35  
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Not being cheap, being reasonable. Some of the ebay prices are way too high. Auctionitis.
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Old 06-27-22, 08:46 AM
  #36  
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The valuation forum is a free place where people can get a spectrum of insight. It's not definitive, and markets vary. If you want to add an opinion, add one...complaining about a place where people offer their expertise for free is lame.
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Old 06-27-22, 08:58 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
The OP of the Raleigh thread did not mention if they were in the buyer or seller.
And he hasn't posted once outside of that appraisals thread.

So, wgaf.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:03 AM
  #38  
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I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if I'm asking for free valuation advice online, and I get an estimate from a user with the moniker "Thrifty Bill", maybe I put that response on the conservative end of the spectrum. No knock against said user at all. I'd thank him for responding, as the OP of the subject thread did.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:07 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
The valuation forum is a free place where people can get a spectrum of insight. It's not definitive, and markets vary. If you want to add an opinion, add one...complaining about a place where people offer their expertise for free is lame.
THIS!
Succinct...and spot-on accurate.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:12 AM
  #40  
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The OP definitely does not want to know my buy level for that bike.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:27 AM
  #41  
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I thought the valuation subforum was for BFers to make off-list, low-ball offers to newbies who post there without having any idea of what their inherited bike is worth?

And I’ve also always thought that free advice from strangers on the internet was worth exactly what you paid for it.

On the Raleigh Portage, I owned one, a CL find for about $65 in all original condition back in 2008. It needed a thorough overhaul and new tires, and, truthfully, kind of was an overbuilt, not-terribly responsive rider, but the whole early 650b thing was cool. I posted pics here and there, and out of the blue, someone emailed me and offered me $500 for the bike. I thought about it some, but wrote back to say that I was enjoying the bike, thought its rarity was cool, etc., and turned down the offer. He came back and said, “How about $1,000?” I had it boxed up and on the way within a week.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:34 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
The valuation forum is a free place where people can get a spectrum of insight. It's not definitive, and markets vary. If you want to add an opinion, add one...complaining about a place where people offer their expertise for free is lame.
Very true. This thread seems like an attempt to spread a simple disagreement in the appraisals area into the general C&V. The original interlocutor there thanked people for their opinions, and it's free advice, so taken for what it's worth. If the difference of opinion is that heated, the people involved can take it to private message.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:38 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I thought the valuation subforum was for BFers to make off-list, low-ball offers to newbies who post there without having any idea of what their inherited bike is worth?

And I’ve also always thought that free advice from strangers on the internet was worth exactly what you paid for it.

On the Raleigh Portage, I owned one, a CL find for about $65 in all original condition back in 2008. It needed a thorough overhaul and new tires, and, truthfully, kind of was an overbuilt, not-terribly responsive rider, but the whole early 650b thing was cool. I posted pics here and there, and out of the blue, someone emailed me and offered me $500 for the bike. I thought about it some, but wrote back to say that I was enjoying the bike, thought its rarity was cool, etc., and turned down the offer. He came back and said, “How about $1,000?” I had it boxed up and on the way within a week.
I did get my Peter Mooney tourer out of there! I think the selling price was pretty reasonable for non-ebay.
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Old 06-27-22, 09:48 AM
  #44  
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I have yet to give an appraisal/opinion on valuation here on this forum. I have asked for at least one appraisal I believe, on an 8-speed Superbe Pro groupset. The opinions/appraisals given to me were on the low side in my opinion, but the advice given was appreciated. It was certainly worth more than it cost me! I decided to do more research and found out they were indeed on the low end if parted out individually but probably closer to expected if sold as a whole group. So all in all, pretty good advice. However, the assistance offered here should be understood by all that it is just one piece of the puzzle. If I provide an opinion based on decent information, it is just that, an opinion. I'm not putting a gun to anyone's head that that is the end all be all value for that item. If one chooses to take that opinion and run with it before doing additional research, then why would I have to feel bad about it. Sometimes with these things so need very specific information or very detailed photos to determine an appraisal that is in the same ballpark much less on the money. In the end, I couldn't part with the group and as my brother says, I have too many bikes and will probably never use the components again. But.... they are so pretty to look at!!!!

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Old 06-27-22, 09:50 AM
  #45  
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If 20 people respond to an appraisal request, the true value is probably somewhere in the range closest to the majority of the appraisals, right? Crowd sourced appraisal.

Personally, I think the appraisal forum is interesting.
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Old 06-27-22, 10:02 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
...someone emailed me and offered me $500 for the bike. I thought about it some, but wrote back to say that I was enjoying the bike, thought its rarity was cool, etc., and turned down the offer. He came back and said, “How about $1,000?” I had it boxed up and on the way within a week.
Sir Winston says to a woman at a social event: “Madam, would you sleep with me for a million pounds?” The lady stammers: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill. Well, I suppose….”
Churchill interrupts: “Would you sleep with me for a fiver?” She responds hotly: “What kind of woman do you think I am?!” Churchill replies: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price."
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Old 06-27-22, 10:16 AM
  #47  
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I mean, why as for the opinion if you've already done so much research?

You're just asking a group of people what they think it's worth. Don't be mad if they don't value it as highly as you do.
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Old 06-27-22, 10:28 AM
  #48  
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Old 06-27-22, 10:34 AM
  #49  
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This thread is silly. Everyone knows the value of an old bike is $20.
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Old 06-27-22, 11:30 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by sloar View Post
So many variables, location number one. Where I’m at I can get more out of a Trek 5200 than an 80’s DeRosa or Colnago.
Then sell me those. Keep the plastic.

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