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unknown builder

Old 06-30-22, 10:23 AM
  #1  
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unknown builder

This is for Sherman and Bullwinkle. They are curious about who made this frame and what it is. It came from Italy via flea bay but from what I see it is not from from near the center of the country but more like from balony or perhaps salami . No discernable identifiers other than what I suspect is a decal replacement and incorrect tubing markers. Here are the sleuthing pics: Smiles Professor Peabody

Frame and fork

Bottom bracket shell

seat tube lugs

Rear dropouts with no serial number

nothing special nylon cable guides and no serial number

Head tube lugs and fork crown

57cm center to top

Fork crown close up. No tubing markings on the steering tube
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Old 06-30-22, 01:24 PM
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I told MH, that at first glance it reminded me of a Bottecchia...early 1980s? Maybe not original fork with the cutout fork crown.

Could be Belgian too, as well.

Hard to tell about the dropouts since the powder coat has obscured the markings and shape a bit.

Really nice color blue though.
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Old 06-30-22, 01:40 PM
  #3  
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Yeah not much to go on with this, given the plain vanilla lugs, BB shell and "Columbus" DOs it does not seem to be top of any maker's line, but could be a perfectly OK rider.
Is there any seat post size available? and the BB is ITAL threading, correct?
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Old 06-30-22, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
This is for Sherman and Bullwinkle. They are curious about who made this frame and what it is. It came from Italy via flea bay but from what I see it is not from from near the center of the country but more like from balony or perhaps salami . No discernable identifiers other than what I suspect is a decal replacement and incorrect tubing markers. Here are the sleuthing pics: Smiles Professor Peabody

Frame and fork

Bottom bracket shell

seat tube lugs

Rear dropouts with no serial number

nothing special nylon cable guides and no serial number

Head tube lugs and fork crown

57cm center to top

Fork crown close up. No tubing markings on the steering tube
clearly built by Boris and Natasha Ciclo Italia S.p.A
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Old 06-30-22, 01:57 PM
  #5  
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Haha! In the la-BOR-a-tory...
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Old 06-30-22, 02:29 PM
  #6  
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Italian BB and 26.8 is a tight fit for the seat post. Again clearly not a top of the line frame. The original question was if this mis-branded frame and fork would be an appropriate one to offer up in the doesn't fit pass around thread. If not, it can go to our local co-op for the earn a bike program for folks that do not have a bike. Smiles, Professor Peabody
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Old 06-30-22, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Italian BB and 26.8 is a tight fit for the seat post. Again clearly not a top of the line frame. The original question was if this mis-branded frame and fork would be an appropriate one to offer up in the doesn't fit pass around thread. If not, it can go to our local co-op for the earn a bike program for folks that do not have a bike. Smiles, Professor Peabody
Looking that Aelle might be the tubing, which would account for it being a sturdy/stout frame.

Aelle would make for a really good riding commuter-frame type. Be interesting if it is more sport geometry.
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Old 07-01-22, 02:13 PM
  #8  
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It is on it's way to the co-op tomorrow morning. Too many bikes here and this one is just a bit tall for me. Some indigent will likely be happy with it. Smiles, MH
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Old 07-01-22, 03:06 PM
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Minor quibble, the plastic BB cable guide is on backwards. It will work fine like that though, just look slightly odd with the longer guide going to the rear.
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Old 07-01-22, 04:24 PM
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-----


Mr. Peabody -"Set the Wayback Machine for nineteen hundred and eighty-three Sherman."



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Old 07-01-22, 08:04 PM
  #11  
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Thanks folks,
Unfortunately this one is not gonna be a keeper nor sent to any BF member. My local co-op will move it along to someone who is likely part of our homeless group of folks who need some type of transportation. For those who are new to this, Brent asked me for some parts about a year ago and I told him I would have to get out the Wayback machine to find the parts. He and I became the pair of "Professor and Sherman' over that episode, and I had the parts for him. It has been a running joke between us ever since, and a few have joined in like Bullwinkle, and other who know of the Chicago Based cartoons of Hans Conreid and his friends. His previous work was remastering old films and adding voice overs for silent films for new story lines until they were sued. The work was hilarious, but it got transferred over to the cartoon series that became the Professor and Sherman stories. I hope our little inside joke has not offended any of our members. Smiles, MH (aka Professor Peabody)
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Old 07-01-22, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
This is for Sherman and Bullwinkle. They are curious about who made this frame and what it is. It came from Italy via flea bay but from what I see it is not from from near the center of the country but more like from balony or perhaps salami . No discernable identifiers other than what I suspect is a decal replacement and incorrect tubing markers. Here are the sleuthing pics: Smiles Professor Peabody

Frame and fork

Bottom bracket shell

seat tube lugs
The seat tube lugs treatment looks a lot like a Saronni frame I have hanging in the shed .
Technotrat ? built I think .



Saronni
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Old 07-02-22, 04:45 AM
  #13  
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The frame characteristics are that of a contract manufactured, mass production frame. If a 26.8mm post is a tight fit, it might even be Columbus Zeta or an equivalent tubeset. Zeta was a carbon steel tubeset that used a 26.6mm post.
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Old 07-02-22, 09:57 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by 1simplexnut View Post
The seat tube lugs treatment looks a lot like a Saronni frame I have hanging in the shed .
Technotrat ? built I think .



Saronni
Short point lugs as well. Saronni would be a nice one.

@T-Mar Columbus Zeta, would that fit the time frame? And the dropouts donít necessarily give me a mass production feel, but I did wonder Bottecchia.

Other than Bianchi, what other large production marquees were there from Italy? Is it possibly Belgian, Dutch or Spanish?
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Old 07-02-22, 10:57 AM
  #15  
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At this point in time it doesn't matter what it is or who made it. It has found a new home in the local co-op and will likely move on from there to someone who probably does not have a bike. It has left my place and unless it boomerangs I won't see it again. Perhaps squirtdad is correct that it was a Boris and Natasha build. Smiles, MH
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Old 07-04-22, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
Short point lugs as well. Saronni would be a nice one.

@T-Mar Columbus Zeta, would that fit the time frame? And the dropouts don’t necessarily give me a mass production feel, but I did wonder Bottecchia.

Other than Bianchi, what other large production marquees were there from Italy? Is it possibly Belgian, Dutch or Spanish?
Zeta, while not being catalogued by Columbus, was still available into the late 1980s, according to some of my Iiterature. So, it is a possibilty, though it could just as likely be Aelle with a pinched cinch slot.

There were still quite a few large Italian bicycle companies in operation during the late 1980s. Besides Bianchi, there was Benotto, Rizzato (Atala), Carnielli (Bottecchia) and Olmo. The old Torresini (Torpado) factory was still pumping out bicycles too, though they had been bought out by Agrati-Garelli. These were full range manufacturers but during the post boom era they couldn't compete with Asian built models in the USA amrket, so importers rarely carried the full line. A good case in point is Bianchi. In the 1980s all their low end models for the USA market were contract manufactured in Japan and Taiwan but European market rec'd lower end models from Italy. Every so often, we get identitifaction requests from European members, for 1980s Bianchi with Calibrati tubesets and low end Campagnolo 980 and 990 derailleurs.

Also, there were a handlful of fairly large companies that specialized in producing sport frames and bicycles under contract. The lower end of their range were built at a fairly low price point with several cost concessions but outwardly gave a good impression to the consumer.

Last edited by T-Mar; 07-04-22 at 11:11 AM.
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