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Change My Mind (or don't)

Old 07-06-22, 02:33 PM
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Andy_K 
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Change My Mind (or don't)

Today's first world problem: I've got a 1974 Masi Gran Criterium, serial number 119 from the Carlsbad shop. It's a very nice bike with Nuovo Record components in excellent condition.



The problem is, while I really enjoy looking at it, I don't ride it often. As some of you know, I can't make much use of 52-42 cranksets, and I just generally prefer newer components, especially dual pivot brakes. So, I'm thinking about committing the heresy of making yet another 3x10 Campy build out of this. I know, I know, I've got plenty of bikes like that, why do it to this Masi?

Here's why I think it's OK:

1. It's been repainted.
2. It's had some extra braze-ons added.
3. Nothing I have planned would be irreversible.
4. I'd ride it more often.

Let me emphasize that 1 and 2 above were not my doing. I bought it like that. I'm not sure how much variability there was in these early California builds, so I don't know exactly how much was added. It has two sets of water bottle bosses, brazed on shift lever mounts, brazed on top tube cable guides, and a fairly ridiculous looking pump peg sprouting from one of the lugs.

What do you think? Will the Prince of Insufficient Light dang me to heck for this? Or am I OK?
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Old 07-06-22, 02:37 PM
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Make it 3X11 Campy.
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Old 07-06-22, 02:41 PM
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Go for it! It will be fun!
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Old 07-06-22, 02:42 PM
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One idea:
-10-sp Campy bar end shifters: remove the rubber, add a NR backing plate, and now you have engraved 3x10 DT shifters.
-Centaur polished FD, RD, crankset..
-keep your brake levers
-keep your calipers (or go Centaur)
-wheelset and cassette (more affordable every day-especially tubular)

Ride where you thought you couldn't.

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Old 07-06-22, 02:46 PM
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3x10 Dura Ace.

I used to be pretty "purist" in my pursuit of things- guitars, amps, bikes... I don't know when I realized that 6 speed worked better for me than 5 speed. Then I realized a lot of late 80s and early 90s stuff looked better and worked better than the early/mid 80s stuff... then I just sorta jumped in to 10 speed. If it makes you ride it- cool. If you're not wrecking history with a significant bike- cool. But a refinished, messed with frame- I'd hang whatever I deemed worthy on it.
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Old 07-06-22, 02:52 PM
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How about one of those Holdsworth or VO 110BCD cranksets? They look pretty similar to that Campagnolo piece.
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Old 07-06-22, 02:55 PM
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I'm in favor of anything that makes a bike more useful to its owner. Racks, bags, flat pedals, gearing, whatever floats your boat. I have put taller stems, wider bars, and SPD pedals on most of my bikes because that is what I like.
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Old 07-06-22, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
I'm in favor of anything that makes a bike more useful to its owner. Racks, bags, flat pedals, gearing, whatever floats your boat. I have put taller stems, wider bars, and SPD pedals on most of my bikes because that is what I like.
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Old 07-06-22, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Today's first world problem: I've got a 1974 Masi Gran Criterium, serial number 119 from the Carlsbad shop. It's a very nice bike with Nuovo Record components in excellent condition.



The problem is, while I really enjoy looking at it, I don't ride it often. As some of you know, I can't make much use of 52-42 cranksets, and I just generally prefer newer components, especially dual pivot brakes. So, I'm thinking about committing the heresy of making yet another 3x10 Campy build out of this. I know, I know, I've got plenty of bikes like that, why do it to this Masi?

Here's why I think it's OK:

1. It's been repainted.
2. It's had some extra braze-ons added.
3. Nothing I have planned would be irreversible.
4. I'd ride it more often.

Let me emphasize that 1 and 2 above were not my doing. I bought it like that. I'm not sure how much variability there was in these early California builds, so I don't know exactly how much was added. It has two sets of water bottle bosses, brazed on shift lever mounts, brazed on top tube cable guides, and a fairly ridiculous looking pump peg sprouting from one of the lugs.

What do you think? Will the Prince of Insufficient Light dang me to heck for this? Or am I OK?
DAMN THE TORPEDO'S, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

Get to it lad, forth with.
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Old 07-06-22, 03:07 PM
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How about about a 3X build from an Italian component company other than Campy with Campy where there is no option. Sakae makes a 110/74 copy of the Ofmega Mistral.
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Old 07-06-22, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
3x10 Dura Ace.

I used to be pretty "purist" in my pursuit of things- guitars, amps, bikes... I don't know when I realized that 6 speed worked better for me than 5 speed. Then I realized a lot of late 80s and early 90s stuff looked better and worked better than the early/mid 80s stuff... then I just sorta jumped in to 10 speed. If it makes you ride it- cool. If you're not wrecking history with a significant bike- cool. But a refinished, messed with frame- I'd hang whatever I deemed worthy on it.
I've seen some real budgeteers rocking Shimano 9-sp and 10-sp DT setups.
-7700/7800/7900 shifters (and a couple on Microshifts)

-polished cranksets from 7-sp to 10-sp.
RSX had polished compact square taper cranksets that used symmetrical BB's.
Specialized also had compact polished triple cranksets.
105 and Ultegra came in 9-sp triple and looked great

-polished calipers, same large range, from single pivot 105's to plenty of dual pivots if you actually want to stop well.

-polished long cage RD's, triple FD's in 5500 and 6500, especially, but also 7700 and 7800.
Keep your range narrow on the cassette, and you can use polished short cage RD's with a Roadlink.
Some members here have successfully used double FD's on triple setups.

-affordable and easily obtained brake levers, from "classic" to affordable Tektro's.
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Old 07-06-22, 03:21 PM
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Here you go. Not much "grouping" on either bike. Doesn't stop them from looking and riding good. The black one is 9, but could be 10. It has 9/10 chainrings.



Last edited by seypat; 07-06-22 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 07-06-22, 03:26 PM
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I say go Sensah 1x11!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13414632339...mis&media=COPY
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Old 07-06-22, 03:41 PM
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I think you just get one of those new old-fashioned $$$$ cranksets and keep the Masi an otherwise NR double.


Maybe add a few more drilliums.
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Old 07-06-22, 03:43 PM
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Go for it. the bike and you will be much happier if it is getting ridden more
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Old 07-06-22, 03:43 PM
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Make it so you ride man!
this has to be the ultimate enabling site.
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Old 07-06-22, 04:09 PM
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I'm shocked. As my publicist, how could you forget a full Gugificazione 650b low trail rack and bag conversion as the only option?
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Old 07-06-22, 04:16 PM
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Chacun a son gout.

I recently started a thread on my Bianchi -- gearing and brakes.
I now have Shimano aero brake levers (a conversion I did 15 years ago, since these fit my hands properly), Shimano Teflon-lined cable housings, and Shimano dual-pivot calipers, and the difference in braking performance is unbelievable.
I experimented with re-gearing, but my current 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23-26 shifts beautifully and provides a very nice 1.5-step ratio progression, so I have decided to keep it and tough up the hills. If it gets to be too much, Plan B is 46-38 / 13-15-17-20-23-26, which will drop my bottom ratio by 10%.

My current project build is the Carlton, which already had a SunTour VGT rear derailleur, which I'll probably retain, when I got it. It is getting SunTour barcons. I am keeping the original Weinmann calipers and levers, but with new KoolStop pads and modern cabling.
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Old 07-06-22, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Make it 3X11 Campy.
The problem with 3x11 Campy is that it's either black or doesn't function as well, sometimes both. I've got one bike with 3x11 Athena. Like the silver Potenza and 11-speed Centaur, it has the downgraded Powershift shifting mechanism. I much prefer the Ultrashift of the old 10-speed stuff. I've thought about cobbling something together with Potenza/Centaur brake blades and maybe Chorus Ultrashift assembly, but that's a lot of expense to solve what's essentially a non-problem.
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Old 07-06-22, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I used to be pretty "purist" in my pursuit of things- guitars, amps, bikes... I don't know when I realized that 6 speed worked better for me than 5 speed. Then I realized a lot of late 80s and early 90s stuff looked better and worked better than the early/mid 80s stuff... then I just sorta jumped in to 10 speed. If it makes you ride it- cool. If you're not wrecking history with a significant bike- cool. But a refinished, messed with frame- I'd hang whatever I deemed worthy on it.
This is essentially where I am. It's just a matter of deciding what is a "significant" bike. I've got four bikes that haven't yet fallen under the resto-mod axe -- this one, my recently acquired 60's PX-10, my 1973 De Rosa, and my 1983 Gios Torino. The PX-10 has low gearing and somehow magically has overcome the barrier to me enjoying riding it even with its (mostly) quirky old French components. The De Rosa is also a repaint, but it's got a lot of cachet in my mind. The Gios has amazing patina that I think modern components would detract from. So, the Masi is the one on the chopping block. I hit a tipping point this past weekend when I was planning to ride it and just decided I'd rather ride a different bike. And so I was asking myself, why do I even keep these bikes if I don't want to ride them. But I know that if I sold them I'd regret it. So here I am.
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Old 07-06-22, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
I think you just get one of those new old-fashioned $$$$ cranksets and keep the Masi an otherwise NR double.


Maybe add a few more drilliums.
wait, does R. Herse offer drillium chainrings now?
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Old 07-06-22, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger M View Post
How about one of those Holdsworth or VO 110BCD cranksets? They look pretty similar to that Campagnolo piece.
Don't get me started on how much I hate compact doubles. I have a 50.4 VO crankset with 46-30 rings on the PX-10, and I like that a lot. I can kind of tolerate 46-34, but I feel like whenever I need the 34T ring, I really need a 28 or 30. With 50-34, I feel like I am always in the wrong gear.

Beyond that, the brakes and levers are the really obstacle here. I've got the Gios and De Rosa set up with stealth triples that give me a decent gearing range as long as I'm not doing any serious climbs, but I just don't like the ergonomics of the vintage brake systems.
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Old 07-06-22, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I have to admit I am Sensah-curious, but this isn't the bike I'd do it with.
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Old 07-06-22, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
I think you just get one of those new old-fashioned $$$$ cranksets and keep the Masi an otherwise NR double.


Maybe add a few more drilliums.
I'll need to consult with a financial planner. I don't think I can afford René Herse components until the stock market recovers, maybe not even then. It makes me think of this:


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Old 07-06-22, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
I'm shocked. As my publicist, how could you forget a full Gugificazione 650b low trail rack and bag conversion as the only option?
I was thinking of asking you just to remove the pump peg, but I'm not sure I want to get this bike that close to the torch. You never know what might happen.
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