Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Road Test/Bike Review (1986) NISHIKI International

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Road Test/Bike Review (1986) NISHIKI International

Old 07-14-22, 07:24 AM
  #1  
SpeedofLite 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SpeedofLite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Florida, USA
Posts: 1,650

Bikes: Litespeed (9); Slingshot (6); Specialized (2); Kestrel (2); Centurion (1); Cervelo (1); FELT (1); Trek (2)

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked 1,936 Times in 669 Posts
Road Test/Bike Review (1986) NISHIKI International

'






__________________
WTB: Slingshot bicycle promotional documents (catalog, pamphlets, etc).
WTB: American Cycling May - Aug, Oct, Dec 1966.
WTB: Bicycle Guide issues 1984 (any); Jun 1987; Jul, Nov/Dec 1992; Apr 1994; 1996 -1998 (any)
WTB: Bike World issue Jun 1974.













SpeedofLite is online now  
Likes For SpeedofLite:
Old 07-14-22, 10:49 AM
  #2  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,982

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1811 Post(s)
Liked 1,362 Times in 860 Posts
"[D]espite being equipped with the latest in ultra hard (115 psi), ultra skinny clinchers..."

*snicker.*

Anyway I do always enjoy the "Counterpoint" that accompanies BG reviews.
smd4 is online now  
Old 07-14-22, 11:22 AM
  #3  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 993 Times in 589 Posts
Is that frame really TIG welded though? The welding beads must be tiny to be hidden by those rings.
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 07-14-22, 11:35 AM
  #4  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,982

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1811 Post(s)
Liked 1,362 Times in 860 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Is that frame really TIG welded though? The welding beads must be tiny to be hidden by those rings.
The article says "heliarc" welding.

EDIT: I googled it and see they're the same.
smd4 is online now  
Old 07-14-22, 02:00 PM
  #5  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Is that frame really TIG welded though? The welding beads must be tiny to be hidden by those rings.
The weld beads are not under the "stress rings". The internal lugs are not stepped to accept a square cut tube. The tube ends are mitered and fit tightly around the adjoining lug section, Consequently, the weld beads appear in the same location as a TIG welded frame. Here's a (poorly) repainted International LD showing the weld beads.


Edit: Perhaps this catalogue diagram will provide further enlightenment on the frame construction method.


Last edited by T-Mar; 07-14-22 at 02:16 PM.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-14-22, 03:11 PM
  #6  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,324

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 127 Posts
They didnít market these things to casual riders.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 07-15-22, 06:30 AM
  #7  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
They didnít market these things to casual riders.
The 1986 advertising campaign actually categorized it as a "stage racing/triathlon" model. It was a bit too upscale for casual riding and didn't have amenities like eyelet dropouts. Conversely, it was also a bit too heavy and the geometry a bit too relaxed for the serious racer. I always thought it was well suited to the avid cyclist who preferred long day rides or centuries.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-15-22, 07:01 AM
  #8  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,982

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1811 Post(s)
Liked 1,362 Times in 860 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Conversely, it was also a bit too heavy and the geometry a bit too relaxed for the serious racer.
Definitely too heavy, but 73/74 is hardly "relaxed" geometry.
smd4 is online now  
Old 07-15-22, 08:49 AM
  #9  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 993 Times in 589 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The weld beads are not under the "stress rings". The internal lugs are not stepped to accept a square cut tube. The tube ends are mitered and fit tightly around the adjoining lug section, Consequently, the weld beads appear in the same location as a TIG welded frame. Here's a (poorly) repainted International LD showing the weld beads.


Edit: Perhaps this catalogue diagram will provide further enlightenment on the frame construction method.

I see! Seems like they could have just TIG welded the whole frame and forget about the lugs.
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 07-15-22, 05:50 PM
  #10  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Definitely too heavy, but 73/74 is hardly "relaxed" geometry.
My comment was about the geometry in general and not specifically the angles.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 07-15-22, 06:53 PM
  #11  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
I see! Seems like they could have just TIG welded the whole frame and forget about the lugs.
That may have been considered too risky. Previously, welding had been used primarily on very low end bicycles and had a poor reputation. It was just starting to take over from fillet brazing on ATBs but that crowd was more receptive to non-orthodox ideas. The road fraternity was conservative by comparison and had been brought up on the maxim that strong frames required lugs. Besides, weld beads were ugly, while lugs could be works of art.

It was a similar situation.with oversize tubing. The early 1980s had been all about aerodynmics. Now they were being asked to accpet oversized tubes that were less aerodynamic. On top of that, they looked heavy and destroyed the proportions of the bicycles.

Things had started to change recently. Some of the French companies had started to utilize lugless, internal brazing but only on lower end models and with standard (metric) diameters. Cannondale and Klein were using oversize tubes and welded construction but their frame were made of aluminum. Masi was using oversized steel tubes but with custom lugs. None of these made such a big sales splash as to cause a paradigm shift within the industry. More significantly, nobody was combining steel, oversized tubes and welding on a road bicycle.

The approach used on the International LD appears to have been a tempered one, aimed at easing the roadie into new thinking. Sure, it was welded but it was backed up with internal, brazed lugs. Yes, the tubes were oversize but only moderately so. Asking the general public to accept (solely) welded construction and oversize tubes on a steel, road frame all at once, could easily have been a marketing disaster. That bridge was crossed in 1990 by Diamond Back, after ATBs had proven the concept. Even then, sales were only moderate. The Expert TG never had the sales of its Centurion Ironman Expert predecessor.

Time has proven that International LD concept was never widely accepted. It lasted onl 2-3 years and only had moderate sales success. It may have been even less sucessful without the internal lugs. We'll never know. While the construction has proven reliable, these frame do appear to have an Achilles heel, as multiple members have reported fractures in the investment cast seat lugs.

Last edited by T-Mar; 07-15-22 at 06:58 PM.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-16-22, 07:15 PM
  #12  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,738

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1370 Post(s)
Liked 928 Times in 649 Posts
I've got one of these frames in my size, beautifully re-painted in metallic green.

The 73/74-degree frame angles are the same as all of Schwinn's higher-spec road bikes (Circuit, Paramount, et all) from the late 1980's, very popular numbers those are (by 1989, even the Traveler had those same angles).

I'm puzzled by the joint-building process though. I don't think that it would be cool to weld the steel after the brazing process, but how else could they do it?
Before today, before seeing that the tube itself met the top tube with a weld joint, I had thought that the lug OD was stepped, that the lug itself was welded but that the tube stopped at the ring that was part of the lug. But that is not what the picture shows!
dddd is offline  
Old 07-16-22, 07:53 PM
  #13  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times in 1,850 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
I've got one of these frames in my size, beautifully re-painted in metallic green.


The 73/74-degree frame angles are the same as all of Schwinn's higher-spec road bikes (Circuit, Paramount, et all) from the late 1980's, very popular numbers those are (by 1989, even the Traveler had those same angles).


I'm puzzled by the joint-building process though. I don't think that it would be cool to weld the steel after the brazing process, but how else could they do it?

Before today, before seeing that the tube itself met the top tube with a weld joint, I had thought that the lug OD was stepped, that the lug itself was welded but that the tube stopped at the ring that was part of the lug. But that is not what the picture shows!

While the Schwinns of the same era may have identical angles, I think you'll find that they have slightly shorter wheelbase, chainstays and/or less rake than the International LD. This slightly more aggressive/more responsive/less relaxed geometry is what distinguished most true racing models from the mid-range models aimed at triathletes and club racers.


I've seen some early International LD where the welds appears to have been filed smooth(er). A cursory look would have one believing that it was a straight cut tube plugged onto a stepped lug. I wouldn't be surprised if some owners even thought they were an adhesively bonded frame. I'm wondering if the finishing of the weld bead was subsequently dropped as a cost savings? Regardless, the catalogue illustration and photo reveals the true construction. Please post a photo of the lugs on your International LD.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-17-22, 12:32 AM
  #14  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,738

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1370 Post(s)
Liked 928 Times in 649 Posts




dddd is offline  
Likes For dddd:
Old 07-17-22, 02:39 AM
  #15  
Jimbo1983
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts
Yeah I still have mine in the pink/grey colours and some of the welds are pretty bad. I can take photos tomorrow. Cool bike though.
I sort of assumed the way they did it was make the lugs by welding oversized bits together, and then doing the brazing afterwards. Thanks for posting that article it was pretty interesting.
Jimbo1983 is offline  
Old 07-18-22, 09:51 PM
  #16  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 993 Times in 589 Posts
It just so happens I have 2 TIG welded Nishikis: The Nishiki Aero II which came a couple years earlier than the OS tubing International:


The weld quality was rather sloppy.

The Linear lo-pro came out a year after the International:


The weld quality is reasonably good on this frame.
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 07-18-22, 11:17 PM
  #17  
Jimbo1983
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts
Here are a couple of pictures of the worst bits.



Jimbo1983 is offline  
Old 07-19-22, 11:11 PM
  #18  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 993 Times in 589 Posts
Originally Posted by Jimbo1983 View Post
Here are a couple of pictures of the worst bits.



that doesnít really look like TIG welding beads. It almost looks like somebody smearing some bondo over the welds.
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 08:47 PM
  #19  
Duo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 500

Bikes: mostly road bikes

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
thank you Speed of Lite, and a blast from the past. the International was my first serious bicycle coming from the mass whatevers we had as a kid.

currently i ride a Fuji Touring, quite heavy in steel but a bike many have toured on over many continents. anyone know if the current steel bikes produced like the Fugi are actually heavier chromoly steel over the normal? touring bikes aint about racing so i don't care about speed much, it just seems that these bicycles should be a serious choice for those that want durability over bling. also this Fuji allows me to put a much fatter tire on than my Trek racing bicycle and it seems to have even larger Granny Gears. thanks.
Duo is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.