52telecaster

On a long day into a relentless headwind half step is the bomb.

Fredo76

I put a Red Clover tripilizer on Fredo:



Stealth drivetrain mods

That's a 28T Sekai chainring on it. I had just enough clearance for it, so I did not have to move my Phil Wood bottom bracket off of center. My original Suntour Cyclone front derailleur works just fine, and the drop into the small ring is easy and reliable. To handle the larger range, I replaced my original Suntour Cyclone rear derailleur with a Suntour V-GT Luxe. The whole combo works well. I'm trying a 49T instead of the 46T at present. There is a 47" gear on each chainring, so it's really only a 19-speed. Otherwise they are nicely spread out:Bicycle Gear Calculator

I read a rumor that Red Clover was considering closing down; glad they haven't, afaik.

52telecaster

They are sure wonderful solutions. Beautiful bike!

bulgie 

There are other ways to get low gears on a 144 mm Campy. Not better, just different.

1. Get the crank that's "factory" drilled for a granny gear with a 100 mm BCD. Campy only made the inner ring in 36t, no other choice, but lots of aftermarket folks have made granny gears down to 30t. I made one for myself that's 29t, just to one-up y'all.
2. Take one that's not drilled, and drill it (or have it done by a specialist like Bob Freeman), with a BCD of 74mm — or 86 mm. 74 mm is most practical, best availability of rings, just don't get smaller than 28t because there's a strong possibility of the chain jamming under the spider arms if you try to use a 24t. 26t can work, if your middle ring is NR, with its inner "web" intact, but on a Super-Record type "relieved" middle ring, stick to 28t or larger.

I drill mine to 86 mm BCD, just because that's what size I made my drilling template, way back in the '70s before 74 mm was a thing. 86 mm goes down to 28t, which is low enough for me usually, and no issue with the chain jamming. 86 mm is the Stronglight 99 pattern, also used by Sakae Ringyo for a while on their Apex Touring crank. Stronglight does still make 86 mm rings, or at least they're still in stock a couple places. Try Spa Cycles in the UK, I've bought from them a few times. The new rings are 7075-T6 alloy, the best/hardest alloy for chainrings, and with a nice finish.

A triplizer ring like a Red Clover really is better though, in several ways, so I'm not suggesting drilling your crank as being better. It's just more of a "period-correct" solution for obsessive-compulsive types. I also think it looks a little cleaner, since the triplizer sticks out into the voids between the spider arms a little, more "busy" or cluttered looking. But the triplizer lets you use any size ring right down to 24t, none of that danger of jamming the chain.

Here's my 29t on 100 mm BCD:

29t is definitely the smallest you can get on a 100 mm BCD — look how close the bolt head comes to the chain. The chain does touch the bolt heads in use, but it's quiet and doesn't cause any problems.

30t is more practical, more available, and the chain clears all the bolt heads:


It helps that 30 divides by 5, so all the bolts are adjacent a tooth, not a "valley" between teeth.

Here's a crank I drilled @ 86 mm for a Stronglight 99 granny, done in the late-'70s:



I also love my Stronglight 93 with the "99 bis" (drilled) granny ring:

So many holes! Not exactly practical — I try not to get this one dirty because it's a PITA to wash it.

Mark B

jonwvara 

Nope, no plans to shut down, because I enjoy these kinds of threads too much. And as I always say, I don't care if I never make a dime selling these things--I just want every man, woman, and child in America to buy one.

ehcoplex

Ooooh, that is purdy!

52telecaster

I recently acquired my old man's vertical mill and dividing head and was considering drilling my second campy crank but wasn't sure about sourcing the bolts to mount the 74bcd ring. Now that you explained the difficulty with a 24 tooth ring I may never try it. I love the 86bcd cranks. I have a Japanese one and would love a stronglight. It's a terrific subcompact crank.

52telecaster

We need you John!

pastorbobnlnh 

#triplizer, #redclovercomponents, #grannygears, #oldnotsostronglegs, #C&Vproblemsolved.

stardognine

Next problem, how do we get better fat tire clearance on C&V frames? 🤔😉

There's some really impressive work in this thread. 👍

52telecaster

Hey I'm rocking 35s and fenders on the grand record.

ehcoplex

650B!! 42c & fenders! (....I do have to deflate to remove the rear wheel.....)

52telecaster

That is a beautiful bike. Hoping my AD is anywhere near that.

ehcoplex

I'm sure it will be! An A-D has been on my 'grail' list since I was about 12 or 13. Used to drool on the window of a tiny shop in Newport, RI looking at the 'smoked chrome' Vent Noir and the Rose-pink Ultima.

Andy_K 

That 45T outer ring is a nice touch. I went 49-42-32 on my Gios. The 32T inner ring is a compromise because I wanted to use a short cage Campy rear derailleur. The 49-42 spacing makes my gears mostly redundant and so the 49 is mostly decorative (as are all of my "big" chainrings). A 45T would eliminate the redundancy and let me drop the small ring to 28. Hmmm.....

52telecaster

I had two campy cranks and one had 45-52 for what reason I couldn't fathom... Turns out the 45 was handy!

bulgie 

Yes, 24t is a no-go, but if you can be satisfied with 26t or larger, read on. There are several options for the bolts/spacers for that kind of triple.

Stronglight makes or made a crankset called Mygal, don't know what it looks like but I have bought a couple sets of the Mygal bolts, which work for the granny on a Campy, either the "factory drilled" kind or aftermarket 74 mm kind. The Mygal bolt heads are only 10 mm, so they don't work on rings with a 10 mm hole, such as Stronglight 99 (ironically), but most 74 mm rings have an 8 mm hole and Mygal bolts work perfectly, and don't cost much. I had to order them from France, I forget where but can look it up if anyone needs to know.

I have also used industrial shoulder bolts (metric of course) that I got from McMaster-Carr (available elsewhere too). There are a couple different ways to use shoulder bolts; the way I prefer requires modifying them slightly on a lathe. If anyone is desperate enough for a set, I have a lathe and can do the mod. I haven't thought about what to charge, but it'll be less than a set of real Campagnolo bolts (#818 and #761, 5 of each), which usually go for $150 or more on the 'bay.Here's a pic of some modified shoulder bolts:


The spacers are just aluminum tubing, parted off to precisely the right length, another lathe job but quick'n'easy.

If this all sounds like too much work for too little benefit, you're right! Just get a Red Clover triplizer and ride happy.

Mark B

John E

I love half-step plus granny, also 1.5-step plus granny, which is what I use on the mountain bike's 3x8 setup.
46-38-28 (I also have a 26 and a 24 -- the 24 requires a bit of finesse when shifting up to the 38, but I'll probably put it back on to get the extended low range)
cassette: 12-13-15-17-19-21-24-28
This works nicely with SunTour XCDs

embankmentlb

I do not have a triple but I do have these! Triomphe -Victory chainrings.
Those triple setups shown here are beautiful!!

52telecaster

If I had been able to do 35 I would have left well enough alone!

embankmentlb

probably the reason this sits on a shelf. Not enough to really help me 😳

ascherer 

No shame in that! That's why the good Lord gave us frame pumps.

52telecaster

That is the truth. Pretty rare to pull the rear wheel except when a flat happens.

Andy_K 

This is my standard complaint about compact doubles. Any time I need a 34T ring, I really need a 30T ring or smaller. Of course these days with rear cogs the size of dinner plates becoming commonplace, no one needs small chainrings anymore except us suckers still trying to ride vintage bikes.

52telecaster

You know I loved having a 33 on my 110 crank for a while. It made no difference but I felt better.