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Top Fillet Brazing Vintage (New one)

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Top Fillet Brazing Vintage (New one)

Old 08-02-22, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
As you can see, the front wheel was mounted upside-down.
Is that possible?
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Old 08-02-22, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
It's been suggested that the seat posts use a quill design, like old-school stems...but with the brake cable seeming to go directly through the center line of the seatpost, it would seem as though it would rub on any quill bolt, which also passes through the centerline of the steapost. Curiouser and curiouser....
Yep, get all that and as we know many of those setups were sketchy, finicky and problematic as well as doomed when a inexperienced wrench was applied.

These "seem and appear" to be a big step above and very well executed even with normal SP's that I think would have to be modified.
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Old 08-02-22, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Is that possible?
Only if you're an expert writing a book.
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Old 08-02-22, 12:16 PM
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Old 08-02-22, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
Yep, get all that and as we know many of those setups were sketchy, finicky and problematic as well as doomed when a inexperienced wrench was applied.

These "seem and appear" to be a big step above and very well executed even with normal SP's that I think would have to be modified.
Obviously the methods employed aren't the most mechanically elegant. They are certainly far more complicated to use than an external seatpost binder bolt and brake cables running through top-tube cable guides--un-artistic though they may be..

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Old 08-02-22, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
@ Merziac

Please be patient

I know everything about these bikes because I was a customer and knew him well, but I'm working on a book to pay tribute to him and make people discover these jewels as they deserve...
Don't see anything wrong with what I write...
My and I suspect many others patience is wearing very thin, you're not going to "make" anyone discover these whether they "deserve" it or not.

You came here and inserted yourself with something very cool as many do, you are treating us like this is our first rodeo but it is what we do and we have played along like the good sports that we are.

You have taken advantage of our collective good nature, that is what's wrong with what you write, you should have enough consternation for a whole chapter as well as a chapter about the BF guys that couldn't figure it out.

You have obviously whipped up enough controversy to sell a few books at our expense which would be fine had you provided the info we ask for before now, book or no book.

You should have waited until the book was all but done and included us in your plan up front, we would have gladly gone along without all this instead.
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Old 08-02-22, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
but only to see the work of other framers you know who did or still do fillet brazing

I'm waiting....
You don't have to wait. [O]ldguyonabike, Wileyone, Cynikal, squirtdad, bulgie and jdawginsc all posted several images and the names of other framebuilders employing this somewhat archaic technique. A simple Google search will bring up some others. If my count is correct, you commented on only one of these posts. It's sort of like you're not really interested in what others have to post, contrary to what you write above.

I think they look cool myself (although you'd probably classify me as someone with an "untrained eye"). It's just that today, the majority of those folks creating artsy-style framesets probably go more for intricate lugwork than fillet brazing.
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Old 08-02-22, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
I didn't create this post to talk about Mercet
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Old 08-02-22, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
You don't have to wait. [O]ldguyonabike, Wileyone, Cynikal, squirtdad, bulgie and jdawginsc all posted several images and the names of other framebuilders employing this somewhat archaic technique. A simple Google search will bring up some others. If my count is correct, you commented on only one of these posts. It's sort of like you're not really interested in what others have to post, contrary to what you write above.

I think they look cool myself (although you'd probably classify me as someone with an "untrained eye"). It's just that today, the majority of those folks creating artsy-style framesets probably go more for intricate lugwork than fillet brazing.
Its because fillet brazing is not a great expression of skill when compared to custom lugwork. Take a look at vintage Schwinn bikes which were fillet brazed on mass production lines by the hundreds of thousands. If someone chromed one of them some people would rave about them as well.

I would like to add to past comments it is not only the bikes which are a version of performance art but this thread is as well.
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Old 08-02-22, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
I'm waiting....
Really?, hat in hand and still expecting us to play along, that's rich and getting more so by the minute.
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Old 08-02-22, 01:57 PM
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Great shet, I do have some pictures of what the Road Warrior. After this is a good thread for his Schwinn Enduro girl to boy bike conversations, or the Schwinn stationary bike that he converted to Wizzer.
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Old 08-02-22, 02:12 PM
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Hey I found one! It's my old Novara, The Best Top Fillet Vintage Mountain Bike. The most stunning MTB ever made, makes all bikes pale in it's wake of fillet braze.

I don't know if you ever heard of the brand of components, Shimano.
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Old 08-02-22, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66
Hey I found one! It's my old Novara, The Best Top Fillet Vintage Mountain Bike. The most stunning MTB ever made, makes all bikes pale in it's wake of fillet braze.

I don't know if you ever heard of the brand of components, Shimano.
Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner, looks like Monsieur Mercet was peeing in the wind all along.
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Old 08-02-22, 04:07 PM
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Old 08-02-22, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Its because fillet brazing is not a great expression of skill when compared to custom lugwork. Take a look at vintage Schwinn bikes which were fillet brazed on mass production lines by the hundreds of thousands. If someone chromed one of them some people would rave about them as well.
It is if it doesn't need filing after brazing. Jack Taylor is a great vintage example, Jeff Lyon is a modern master of the technique.


Jack Taylor


Jeff Lyon L'avecaise

When I took the UBI framebuilding course they split the class into Team Lug and Team Fillet Brazed. The lugged people had enough time to build a fork as well, whereas the fillet brazed gang had to practice fillet brazing for a couple of days before they were allowed to start working on their frame. I'd say that lugs are easier to start with, fillet brazing takes a bit more skill, at least at first. Both can look like barf once the flame is extinguished, but files and 80 grit garnet cloth can make you look like a million bucks.
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Old 08-02-22, 04:45 PM
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Old 08-02-22, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
It is if it doesn't need filing after brazing. Jack Taylor is a great vintage example, Jeff Lyon is a modern master of the technique.


Jack Taylor


Jeff Lyon L'avecaise
You will never know whether there was cleanup post brazing or not most likely there is some. Obviously if the frame builder is doing this as a business the less filing the better. I am still mystified about the romance that surrounds filet brazing. It is clearly the simplest method requiring the least skill, fewest specialized tools, easiest to repair and coverup errors, cheapest materials cost, heaviest and finally the weakest.
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Old 08-02-22, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
You will never know whether there was cleanup post brazing or not most likely there is some. Obviously if the frame builder is doing this as a business the less filing the better. I am still mystified about the romance that surrounds filet brazing. It is clearly the simplest method requiring the least skill, fewest specialized tools, easiest to repair and coverup errors, cheapest materials cost, heaviest and finally the weakest.
Have you ever picked up a torch and tried it? (serious question, not trying to be flippant) I build lugged frames and fillets are significantly harder. The heat control needed to simultaneously melt brass and not warp thin wall tubing takes a lot of practice. Especially around tubing of different sizes and thicknesses.
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Old 08-02-22, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Its because fillet brazing is not a great expression of skill when compared to custom lugwork. Take a look at vintage Schwinn bikes which were fillet brazed on mass production lines by the hundreds of thousands. If someone chromed one of them some people would rave about them as well.

I would like to add to past comments it is not only the bikes which are a version of performance art but this thread is as well.
It is just wrong to compare a schwinn to the beautiful bikes posted in this thread.
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Old 08-02-22, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone
It is just wrong to compare a schwinn to the beautiful bikes posted in this thread.
It would depend on the Schwinn. There are fillet brazed Paramounts and other nice examples but I wouldn't include the electraforged (sp?) frames like the Varsity.
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Old 08-02-22, 05:30 PM
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Old 08-02-22, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15


As you can see the front wheel was mounted upside down.
That'll make the bike go left when you turn right!!!
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Old 08-02-22, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
@ Cynikal
Do you work only with brass but never with silver ?
Currently I use 56% silver as much as I can due to the lower temperatures. I keep the lugs and braze-ons to silver but use brass on cantilever studs. There are great silver alloys that buildup like brass at lower temperatures. I have used 50n silver and about to start playing with 45% silver to start learning fillets.
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Old 08-02-22, 06:16 PM
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Old 08-02-22, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ago15
Now that's a response I'm happy to read, namely from a frame builder!
What is the tube thickness you have been working on?
You know, there’s a separate framebuilders sub-forum. Perhaps you’d be happier there?

Last edited by smd4; 08-02-22 at 06:24 PM.
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