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Early 80s Pug tandem....

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Early 80s Pug tandem....

Old 08-09-22, 08:20 PM
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ehcoplex
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Early 80s Pug tandem....

Been casually casting about for a tandem for a while..... something to try to get the SO into riding a bit. I need another 'project' like I need a hole in my head, but... I do like odd stuff, particularly French stuff..... This showed up on FB a few weeks ago. When contacted, the seller said a sale was pending. Well, apparently not. I could probably just sell the Mafac brakes and make about what I paid for the whole shebang....


(I do have the front wheel & fender- thought I needed it off to haul the thing, but probably could've left it on....)
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Old 08-09-22, 08:22 PM
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I like it. Even though you feel like you have plenty of projects, this doesn't look like it will be too time consuming to make it a nice ride for you and your wife.
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Old 08-09-22, 11:13 PM
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It looks a lot like mine. There was no mention of a bike in the CL garage sale ad. We were looking for furniture for my daughter's apartment and I spotted a bit of the checkerboard pattern on the seat tube in the background of one of the pictures.


1980 Peugeot tandem
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Old 08-10-22, 03:58 AM
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Cool, I like those. Smart no-nonsense design and construction. It has a "real" tandem fork too, not just a heavier than normal single-bike fork, like so many other vintage tandems. Both the steerer and the blades are oversized by a suitable amount. If yours is like the ones I remember, it has small (but plenty strong) brass fillet joints, not filed or smoothed, just laid down clean and left that way. I really respect that — not hiding anything. Remember, these are fillets laid down by guys who've done this every day for years. As I recall QC was very good, never heard of a warranty issue or suspicious failure. I only worked at a Peugeot dealer for a few years though, other people here might have more data points.

Watch out for the obsolete unobtainium headset. They're pretty durable, but don't do anything to speed its demise. Maybe overhaul it with fresh clean grease and then make sure it's adjusted right, not too tight. Check the ball bearing size, some used 5 mm balls, which are close to 3/16" but not completely interchangeable in bearing races. i.e. sometimes it'll work and other times not, it rubs where it's not supposed to, you get plating flaking off and getting in the grease = high friction and short lifetime.

But not all 28 mm headsets used 5 mm balls, I think it was not Stronglight but one of the common 2nd-tier brands like Bardon. Whatever Jack Taylor was using in the '70s, that's where I saw them the most. Peugeot had a house-branded version of a Stronglight, very high quality, but then I think they downgraded their basic tandem to use a cheaper headset like the Bardon. So watch the ball size.

Oh I suppose you should check the ball size top and bottom because they can be different. It used to be a known hack, to workaround the 5 mm ball requirement in American bike shops, the advice was use 3/16" below and 5/32" above. So if your headset is done that way, put it back the same way and it should still work, but consider switching to 5 mm balls. BTW if you need 5 mm balls, one source is McMaster

The steerer is 28 mm, tantalizingly close to 1-1/8" but smaller, not interchangeable. The frame/fork can be modified to take a modern 1-1/8" headset but I've never done it. Unless there's an easier way I'm missing, this mod wouldn't be very easy, probably not something a home mechanic can DIY. Probably best to just make this headset last the life of the bike. Unless this quickly becomes your new fave bike getting all your miles, I can easily see one headset lasting for life on one of these.

Everyone's got an opinion on how to control the drum brake, so just let me tell you the right way (everyone else is wrong)
Ditch that dual-cable lever and put the drum on a friction shifter, like a thumbie or bar-con. Boom, instant parking brake! Oh yeah, you might also actually use it sometimes while riding, but that's almost never needed, unless you frequently do multi-kilo-foot descents on -10% grades, while loaded with camping gear, and a kiddie trailer.

Since I've been an avid tandem guy for over 40 years without ever once owning or wanting a third brake, there's a good chance you won't need it much either. Dunno if I'd rebuild the rear wheel just to ditch the drum brake — even though it's mostly useless dead weight, I'm lazy so I'd probably leave it on. This bike is pretty dang heavy anyway, a lighter hub isn't going to change that. The drum hub works fine as just a hub. Watch out for French freewheel threads though!

You know not to use a TA crank extractor (23 mm), right? Older Stronglight was 23.35, enough bigger that an extractor made for TA (including a Park brand) will often (usually) strip the extractor threads out of the crank. Sometime in the '80s I think, they switched to Campy size, 22 mm, but I'm guessing your bike is older than that. I hope I'm seeing that right and they really are Stronglight...

More pics please when you get a chance.

Mark B

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Old 08-10-22, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
It looks a lot like mine. There was no mention of a bike in the CL garage sale ad. We were looking for furniture for my daughter's apartment and I spotted a bit of the checkerboard pattern on the seat tube in the background of one of the pictures.


1980 Peugeot tandem
Nice- much better shape than mine (though I think she'll clean/polish up pretty well)! And you've got the lights & generator, too, which I'm missing. I doubt I would ever need 'em, but I kinda wish they were still there.
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Old 08-10-22, 05:06 AM
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Old 08-10-22, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
Cool, I like those. Smart no-nonsense design and construction. It has a "real" tandem fork too, not just a heavier than normal single-bike fork, like so many other vintage tandems. Both the steerer and the blades are oversized by a suitable amount. If yours is like the ones I remember, it has small (but plenty strong) brass fillet joints, not filed or smoothed, just laid down clean and left that way. I really respect that — not hiding anything. Remember, these are fillets laid down by guys who've done this every day for years. As I recall QC was very good, never heard of a warranty issue or suspicious failure. I only worked at a Peugeot dealer for a few years though, other people here might have more data points.

Watch out for the obsolete unobtainium headset. They're pretty durable, but don't do anything to speed its demise. Maybe overhaul it with fresh clean grease and then make sure it's adjusted right, not too tight. Check the ball bearing size, some used 5 mm balls, which are close to 3/16" but not completely interchangeable in bearing races. i.e. sometimes it'll work and other times not, it rubs where it's not supposed to, you get plating flaking off and getting in the grease = high friction and short lifetime.

But not all 28 mm headsets used 5 mm balls, I think it was not Stronglight but one of the common 2nd-tier brands like Bardon. Whatever Jack Taylor was using in the '70s, that's where I saw them the most. Peugeot had a house-branded version of a Stronglight, very high quality, but then I think they downgraded their basic tandem to use a cheaper headset like the Bardon. So watch the ball size.

Oh I suppose you should check the ball size top and bottom because they can be different. It used to be a known hack, to workaround the 5 mm ball requirement in American bike shops, the advice was use 3/16" below and 5/32" above. So if your headset is done that way, put it back the same way and it should still work, but consider switching to 5 mm balls. BTW if you need 5 mm balls, one source is McMaster

The steerer is 28 mm, tantalizingly close to 1-1/8" but smaller, not interchangeable. The frame/fork can be modified to take a modern 1-1/8" headset but I've never done it. Unless there's an easier way I'm missing, this mod wouldn't be very easy, probably not something a home mechanic can DIY. Probably best to just make this headset last the life of the bike. Unless this quickly becomes your new fave bike getting all your miles, I can easily see one headset lasting for life on one of these.

Everyone's got an opinion on how to control the drum brake, so just let me tell you the right way (everyone else is wrong)
Ditch that dual-cable lever and put the drum on a friction shifter, like a thumbie or bar-con. Boom, instant parking brake! Oh yeah, you might also actually use it sometimes while riding, but that's almost never needed, unless you frequently do multi-kilo-foot descents on -10% grades, while loaded with camping gear, and a kiddie trailer.

Since I've been an avid tandem guy for over 40 years without ever once owning or wanting a third brake, there's a good chance you won't need it much either. Dunno if I'd rebuild the rear wheel just to ditch the drum brake — even though it's mostly useless dead weight, I'm lazy so I'd probably leave it on. This bike is pretty dang heavy anyway, a lighter hub isn't going to change that. The drum hub works fine as just a hub. Watch out for French freewheel threads though!

You know not to use a TA crank extractor (23 mm), right? Older Stronglight was 23.35, enough bigger that an extractor made for TA (including a Park brand) will often (usually) strip the extractor threads out of the crank. Sometime in the '80s I think, they switched to Campy size, 22 mm, but I'm guessing your bike is older than that. I hope I'm seeing that right and they really are Stronglight...

More pics please when you get a chance.

Mark B
A wealth of knowledge!
Headset is moving well, though I'll take it apart and check/regrease (along with everything else on the bike- I suspect I won't really get to this project until the winter and we won't be out riding it until next season..). The captain position is a little small for me, so I'm probably going to have to sand down a Technomic to get enough bar height.... which I expect will mean different handlebars, but I've got a bunch of those floating around.. half thinking about some upright bars with bar-ends, but we'll see.
In doing some online research before going to look it seemed that these TM-8 models sometimes had 27" wheels and sometimes had 700c. Coupled with the fact that the Mafac cantis seem to have very little adjustability for radial differences I was prepared to walk if the wheels were 27". I could be wrong about these points, but it ended up moot as the wheels are 700c.
Wheels are steel Chrolux, and not in very good shape. There's a 7sp freewheel on there, which I expect sadly means an english freewheel on a french hub and the resultant botched-up threads.... In my perusals-of-the-usuals over the past month or so I've seen a couple tandem wheel-sets (drum-less) come up for pretty cheap- if I can land a set I'll probably just ditch the third brake- we're fairly light.
Indexed Deore RD/shifter- works, but doesn't really look the part.. A little odd, as I think the tires on it might be original, which would indicate not a lot of use, so why the RD change...?

Cranks are Stronglight, & I aready have the Stein puller, so (should be) all good there.

More pics later today.
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Old 08-10-22, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
you've got the lights & generator, too, which I'm missing.
Pretty sure that gen is a Soubitez. When I needed one some years ago for a resto, I bought several on ebay to be sure I would get one good working unit. They were all so cheap, I didn't mind being stuck with extras. I can look to see if I still have one, if you'd like.

I found out the gen came in two mirror image variants (I think what chemists call "chirality"?), which means one goes above the seatstay on the left side of the bike, or below the seatstay on the right side. The other variant is the converse of that! I think I might still have one of each, because at first I accidentally ordered the wrong kind. Before I knew there were "kinds". So if you go on safari on ebay, pay attention to the chirality. The wrong type will want to spring out away from the tire instead of towards the tire.

Mark B
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Old 08-10-22, 03:49 PM
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More photos..... I've got my cleaning & polishing work cut out for me. Lots of little paint-blisters/tiny rusty spots to deal with, etc (ie, plenty patina...). I couldn't help myself and did a quick polish on one of the crank arms- a polished up Stronglight is a thing of beauty.
First order of business is to find a longer seat-post and stem. My Harbor Freight digital caliper is a piece of junk, so I can't totally trust what it tells me, but I'm getting 25.9mm for the seat=posts and 21.9 for the stem....(re)searching to commence (and any leads, etc, welcome)... It'll take a whole lotta elbow grease to clean up the Chrolux steel rims- I wasn't going to bother with them, but I kinda want to ride this thing a bit this season if I/we can, so I may go just go for it. Some truing touch-up and new tires....
Cleaned and polished a little section of a top tube- this is a very lovely color.
Not sure what the heck is going on with one of the front brake shoes/holder- appears someone hack-sawed 1/3 of it off... RD is bent, but shifting OK....
More later












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Old 08-10-22, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by top506 View Post
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Yo, Top! I have been paged!

What's up? Or rather, whazzup?
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Old 08-10-22, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
More photos.....
Awesome TH8!! It looks very much like ours (except that ours has been painted).
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Old 08-10-22, 08:34 PM
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TA triple chainring = score!

You can probably pop in almost any 700c wheels for riding if'n you don't want the non-braking of chrome steel rims.

Quick'n'dirty way to get the bars up higher: consider some Scott Drop-In bars, mounted upside down. Unfashionable but effective!

I see the rear wheel spokes are cross-1, with heads all facing in. Nothing wrong with that, perfectly logical, just don't see that very often.

About the sawed-off brake shoes: Mafac tandem shoes ("5-dot") are longer, annoyingly long when they hit the fork blades preventing you from opening the brake enough to get the wheel out. Maybe try some normal Mafac "4-dot" shoes, I bet they'll clear. Shorter pads like these sawed-off ones will probably heat up faster (brake fade) and will definitely wear out faster, so replace 'em soon. (Prolly fine for teste rides though.)

I recommend Kool Stop, they make an exact replacement for Mafac (both 4-dot and 5-dot). You can't tell them from real originals from more than 3-4 feet away. Unless you get the Salmon color of course, that's a dead giveaway. Many people say salmon is better but I can't really tell; what I can say for sure is that even the black Kool Stops are better for stopping than Mafac. Strongly recommended. You'll need new Mafac metal holders though, those sawed-off ones are trash unfortunately.

Mark B
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Old 08-10-22, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
You can probably pop in almost any 700c wheels for riding if'n you don't want the non-braking of chrome steel rims.
Hmm.. I was thinking with 140mm rear (I assume?), I'd need tandem wheels, but now that I think of it I could/should just try the 135mm wheel/s from one of the other bikes... and both of those have nice, cushy Rene Herse tires on em...

Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
Quick'n'dirty way to get the bars up higher: consider some Scott Drop-In bars, mounted upside down. Unfashionable but effective!
Ha, the whole point is to get my SO to ride, and she's rather sensitive to, er, aesthetics... I'm sure she'd look askance. Yeah, OK, I'm sensitive to aesthetics, too....
Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
I see the rear wheel spokes are cross-1, with heads all facing in. Nothing wrong with that, perfectly logical, just don't see that very often.
Huh- I hadn't even noticed that!
Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
About the sawed-off brake shoes: Mafac tandem shoes ("5-dot") are longer, annoyingly long when they hit the fork blades preventing you from opening the brake enough to get the wheel out. Maybe try some normal Mafac "4-dot" shoes, I bet they'll clear. Shorter pads like these sawed-off ones will probably heat up faster (brake fade) and will definitely wear out faster, so replace 'em soon. (Prolly fine for teste rides though.)

I recommend Kool Stop, they make an exact replacement for Mafac (both 4-dot and 5-dot). You can't tell them from real originals from more than 3-4 feet away. Unless you get the Salmon color of course, that's a dead giveaway. Many people say salmon is better but I can't really tell; what I can say for sure is that even the black Kool Stops are better for stopping than Mafac. Strongly recommended. You'll need new Mafac metal holders though, those sawed-off ones are trash unfortunately.
Mark B
Indeed, Kool Stops are in order. They're great on all the other bikes I have. And in spite of the tires seeming original, and there being very little wear on the chainrings, the brake shoes are pretty worn. Funny thing is that it's only one side of the front cantis that is sawed off to 3 'dots'. And all the others are only 4 dots (which fit fine without hitting the forks..), so I wonder if the tandem 5 dots got swapped out at some point... But still a mystery why someone would saw one off to 3?
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Old 08-11-22, 06:09 AM
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Pulled the wheels off. Rear spacing measures 137.5, so I put on the wheels from my Cannondale touring bike (that sits sad and lonely now that I pretty much only ride my PX-10 650b conversion...)- CR-18 rims, nice fat RH Barlow Pass tires. Ahh, that is a nice ride (at least solo, around the yard). Probably not ideal for long-term, but I OK for now.

I'm wondering if one of those quill-to-threadless adapter stems might be made to fit with a bit of sanding... would make it easier to figure out just the right riding position, as I don't have a ton of tandem-captaining experience and I suspect the ideal position might be a bit different than on a solo road bike.

Anyone happen to know if the Kool-Stop 'Cross' smooth-post pads/holders will work with the Mafac cantis without hitting the fork?
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Old 08-11-22, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
More photos..... I've got my cleaning & polishing work cut out for me. Lots of little paint-blisters/tiny rusty spots to deal with, etc (ie, plenty patina...). I couldn't help myself and did a quick polish on one of the crank arms- a polished up Stronglight is a thing of beauty.
First order of business is to find a longer seat-post and stem. My Harbor Freight digital caliper is a piece of junk, so I can't totally trust what it tells me, but I'm getting 25.9mm for the seat=posts and 21.9 for the stem....(re)searching to commence (and any leads, etc, welcome)... It'll take a whole lotta elbow grease to clean up the Chrolux steel rims- I wasn't going to bother with them, but I kinda want to ride this thing a bit this season if I/we can, so I may go just go for it. Some truing touch-up and new tires....
Cleaned and polished a little section of a top tube- this is a very lovely color.
Not sure what the heck is going on with one of the front brake shoes/holder- appears someone hack-sawed 1/3 of it off... RD is bent, but shifting OK....
More later

The stem should be a French 22.0 mm. On mine, the fork has enough tolerance to fit some 22.2 mm stems, or you can easily sand one down to fit. My seat post measures 25.4 mm. The seat tube is 28 mm, which is slightly smaller than the 1 1/8" on non-French frames. The plastic Simplex derailleur cracked, so the Sun Tour replacement almost bottomed out before it was tight.

My steel rims were pretty rough, so I laced new alloy rims to the old hubs. I replaced the brake pads with standard mountain bike pads. The mounting post is off-center, so the rear of the pad doesn't interfere with the fork. Braking is fine with just the cantilevers. The drum brake does not do much more than reduce the impact velocity. Here in northwest Ohio, there aren't any hills long enough to need a drag brake.

Mine is in pieces at the moment. My wife was new to cycling, so it was not comfortable for her to ride. Now that she is more experienced, I want to give it another try. The frame is a bit small for me and a bit big for my wife, so it may not work out. I want to try Northroad bars to get more upright.
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Old 08-11-22, 07:05 AM
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Nice find and the color and graphics are subline! I've ridden with jimmuller and his wife Shannon several times and your tandem is a great edition to your stable.

I noticed the freewheel appears to be a 7 speed Sachs Aris. That is definitely a change from Jim's, which is a Suntour Perfect or ProCompe 5 speed tandem specific version. I'm surprised the 7 speed could be fitted to the hub unless the axle was lengthened or respaced and the wheel re-dished.
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Old 08-11-22, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
The stem should be a French 22.0 mm. On mine, the fork has enough tolerance to fit some 22.2 mm stems, or you can easily sand one down to fit.
Much to my surprise (because......French!), the V-O quill/threadless stem adapter from another bike fits! And with some Nitto Randonneur bars I actually forgot I had I *think* the bars might be high enough. Still want another inch and a bit of seat height, so after that I may find I do need the bars up a little more, we'll see. And I am kind of interested in some upright bars, but for now trying to work with what I have.



(inelegant, but will do for the moment...)

Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
My steel rims were pretty rough, so I laced new alloy rims to the old hubs. I replaced the brake pads with standard mountain bike pads. The mounting post is off-center, so the rear of the pad doesn't interfere with the fork. Braking is fine with just the cantilevers. The drum brake does not do much more than reduce the impact velocity. Here in northwest Ohio, there aren't any hills long enough to need a drag brake.
I'll see if I can get by with just the cantis. It is hilly where I am, but few of the descents are really long. And my SO doesn't like the going up part, so we'll probably stick to the flatter routes.
Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
The frame is a bit small for me and a bit big for my wife, so it may not work out.
[/QUOTE]
Similar situation here, but I think/hope the bit too small/bit too big is within the range of acceptability!
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Old 08-11-22, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Nice find and the color and graphics are subline! I've ridden with jimmuller and his wife Shannon several times and your tandem is a great edition to your stable.

I noticed the freewheel appears to be a 7 speed Sachs Aris. That is definitely a change from Jim's, which is a Suntour Perfect or ProCompe 5 speed tandem specific version. I'm surprised the 7 speed could be fitted to the hub unless the axle was lengthened or respaced and the wheel re-dished.
I agree on the color- it's really nice, and the orange DT logo looks great over it!

Yep, it's a Sachs 7speed.
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Old 08-11-22, 09:20 AM
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I had one of those as well but the missus just couldn't buy in to tandem riding so I moved it on.

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Old 08-11-22, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I had one of those as well but the missus just couldn't buy in to tandem riding so I moved it on.
I'm really hoping the case isn't the same here!
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Old 08-11-22, 12:06 PM
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Would someone please school me on the three brake cables? I can't figure out where all the cables go.
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Old 08-11-22, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rotten View Post
Would someone please school me on the three brake cables? I can't figure out where all the cables go.
left to front cantis, one from the right to rear cantis, the other to rear drum- drum & rear cantis operate in…… tandem (couldn’t resist)!
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Old 08-11-22, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
left to front cantis, one from the right to rear cantis, the other to rear drum- drum & rear cantis operate in…… tandem (couldn’t resist)!
Thank you, learn something new everyday. I'd never noticed the double cable levers on tandems before.
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Old 08-11-22, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rotten View Post
Thank you, learn something new everyday. I'd never noticed the double cable levers on tandems before.
Not all, of course. Some tandems only have front & rear rim brakes, on some the stoker controls the drum/drag brake...
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Old 08-11-22, 06:53 PM
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OK, it's going to cost me a bit of $, but I am strangely excited about this bike. Yeah, it ain't high-end, it's kinda heavy, but it's damn cool (& the SO agrees)! I thought it would end up a 'winter' project, but now I want this thing on the road ASAP (it'll get the 'full treatment' over the winter, of course)! A bit taller captain seat-post, new brake pads, new cables, fresh lube all around and I'm determined that we will get some rides in before it gets cold!
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