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Gifted Raleigh Gran Sport: odd components?

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Gifted Raleigh Gran Sport: odd components?

Old 08-25-22, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kroozer View Post
If the gravel roads you'll be riding on are not too rough, then 27x1-3/8" tires (about the equivalent of 700x35) are probably fine. I would try that first, and if you don't like it then look for other options. I don't think switching to 700C is going to gain you enough clearance to use wider tires. I have an International from about the same time period, and the chainstay clearance limits me to 700x35. Maybe the Gran Sport's had more clearance but I wouldn't count on it.
If you switch to smaller diameter wheels, that's going to be a fairly big expense, and you'll only be able to use slightly wider tires, 38mm or perhaps 40mm. Not many bikes from the early 70's will take 650Bx42 tires.
38 mm is a pretty decent width for gravel grinding but yeah there aren't too many vintage bikes that can take a 38 mm tire unless you do a 650b conversion.

700 x 38c tires on a vintage bike?

So you could well be right that going to 700c may not get the OP much in terms of tire width but there are a heck of a lot more tire choices for 700c. There is a lot to be said for sticking with the original wheels and finding a 27 x 1 and 3/8 tire but the options are limited. So it may be worth switching to 700c if the OP has a spare set of 700c wheels to get better tire choices. Also going tubular is an interesting idea as well (post 9)

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Old 08-26-22, 05:36 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by kroozer View Post
If the gravel roads you'll be riding on are not too rough, then 27x1-3/8" tires (about the equivalent of 700x35) are probably fine.
Doh! Holy calculator, Batman! Had not thought of that.

Originally Posted by gugie View Post
^Wisdom^

Many have sung praises of these. $36 each. Take two of these and call us in the morning.
After seeing Kroozer's post, I looked online, saw those, also Kenda K161 among others. Cheap compared to the Conti GP5000's I've been buying, how is the quality? Perhaps on gravel I should not obsess about rolling resistance.

Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
38 mm is a pretty decent width for gravel grinding but yeah there aren't too many vintage bikes that can take a 38 mm tire unless you do a 650b conversion. 700 x 38c tires on a vintage bike? So you could well be right that going to 700c may not get the OP much in terms of tire width but there are a heck of a lot more tire choices for 700c. There is a lot to be said for sticking with the original wheels and finding a 27 x 1 and 3/8 tire but the options are limited. So it may be worth switching to 700c if the OP has a spare set of 700c wheels to get better tire choices. Also going tubular is an interesting idea as well (post 9)
But at least I can try out graveling without the expense of having the hubs replaced to new rims first... and defer that cost. I am guessing as the years go by the choices in 27" will fade, forcing the issue (it's like trying to find decent 205/60-13 car tires today, nobody uses them)
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Old 08-26-22, 05:47 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Doh! Holy calculator, Batman! Had not thought of that.



After seeing Kroozer's post, I looked online, saw those, also Kenda K161 among others. Cheap compared to the Conti GP5000's I've been buying, how is the quality? Perhaps on gravel I should not obsess about rolling resistance.



But at least I can try out graveling without the expense of having the hubs replaced to new rims first... and defer that cost. I am guessing as the years go by the choices in 27" will fade, forcing the issue (it's like trying to find decent 205/60-13 car tires today, nobody uses them)

michelin protek 27 x 1 and 1/4 run wide and measure 1 and 3/8 on my rims. Other BF posters have similar observations. Plus they’re decent tires that have some flat protection.
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Old 08-26-22, 06:33 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
After seeing Kroozer's post, I looked online, saw those, also Kenda K161 among others. Cheap compared to the Conti GP5000's I've been buying, how is the quality? Perhaps on gravel I should not obsess about rolling resistance.
Generally speaking Panaracer tires are very high quality. Rene Herse tire are made by them. Note that they make heavier tires and lighter weight tires, the one's I linked too aren't the lightest, but definitely not the heaviest. Rolling resistance is probably as important on gravel as on pavement. The main issue with using 27" wheels is your tire choices are limited compared to 700c, but this particular tire is a great value.
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Old 08-26-22, 06:49 AM
  #30  
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Ahem The ultimate 27" tire reference thread! Cough!
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Old 08-26-22, 11:23 AM
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So I'll conclude that, in lieu of other evidence, that someone -- somewhere -- altered the bike from the original specification. Either a shop or perhaps a previous owner. Regardless, nice components. As far a "keeping it original", I'll start off with "keeping it as my friend's father rode it" despite my having a Stronglight 93 set in storage I'm not using for anything right now. Beyond regular service parts, maybe I'll re-wrap with red cloth tape. Looks like it had a rather short Silca pump at one point, which will need sourcing.

Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
michelin protek 27 x 1 and 1/4 run wide and measure 1 and 3/8 on my rims. Other BF posters have similar observations. Plus they’re decent tires that have some flat protection.
...and...
Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Generally speaking Panaracer tires are very high quality. Rene Herse tire are made by them. Note that they make heavier tires and lighter weight tires, the one's I linked too aren't the lightest, but definitely not the heaviest. Rolling resistance is probably as important on gravel as on pavement. The main issue with using 27" wheels is your tire choices are limited compared to 700c, but this particular tire is a great value.
I"ll check those out too -- I have time, this will be an over-the-winter project.

Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Uh, while not quite as difficult to digest as "Totally Tubular", that's a huge # of posts spread out over a lot of years. OK, I've read part of it. Again, with no gravel experience, are knobby tires required? Otherwise, those SwiftTire 27's look nice.
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Old 08-26-22, 11:28 AM
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A stronglight 93 will let you run 50/37 rings which will work better I think than the 52/42 on the campy for gravel riding. But yeah keeping the wheels on the bike and running a little fatter tire makes sense.
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Old 08-26-22, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
So I'll conclude that, in lieu of other evidence, that someone -- somewhere -- altered the bike from the original specification. Either a shop or perhaps a previous owner. Regardless, nice components. As far a "keeping it original", I'll start off with "keeping it as my friend's father rode it" despite my having a Stronglight 93 set in storage I'm not using for anything right now...

Again, with no gravel experience, are knobby tires required? Otherwise, those SwiftTire 27's look nice.
Now we know what the goal is - represent the bike like your friend's father rode it. Your choice on what to do, but the components are just fine.

Since gravel ridiing on road bikes has become very popular over the past several years, there's been a lot of understanding on what tires work well. My gravel might not be like your gravel, but generally speaking kobby tires aren't helpful unless you're riding on moist soil where the knobs can sink in and give traction. Dry gravel forestry roads, like I ride on in the PNW work just fine with fat tires, no tread.
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Old 01-17-23, 01:54 PM
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Well, today I "broke down" most of the bike. Crown race is really stuck and that's one part I do not have the correct tool for removing. The rest of the headset is out, and the BB including the fixed cup popped right out, which surprised me. And I need to empty out the hubs.

Gearing is a 14-24 out back, 52/43 up front; interesting choice for a middle-aged newbie to cycling but I give him points for that! Unsure what I'll change it to; whatever freewheel the NR can take -- perhaps with a long-cage adapter -- for sure and I do not know if I care to buy a new inner chainring just to pick up 1T. Yeah, I do have that set of Stronglight 93's and I half expected when the crank arms came off I'd find a Stronglight BB in there. Nope: Brev. Camp.

Not finding any other damage but have not done a string test on the frame yet. Gawd, it's grimy! I had run out of Simple Green Pro HD on earlier project bikes and a fresh jug arrives tomorrow.

Speaking of which, is the Simple Green safe on paint... and decals? If I save the finish, the decals are OK except (a) the "Gran Sport" on the TT is faint, like partly worn off -- it's not paint instead of a decal, is it? and (b) the seat tube 531 decal is a bit flaky around the edges, but I hope to save it. After touch-up I plan to use polishing compound and see if the paint gloss comes back.

Oh, on the rear derailleur, I see the threaded sleeve on the housing to hold a screw to limit the lower spring's wind-up is cracked off. I think I can install as-is, and I think I have a spare RD anyway.

I still have not made up my mind on tires but, as I have other bike for "nice surfaces", knobbier tires somewhat call out to me for the Raleigh.

More photos when there's anything worthwhile to show.

Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Now we know what the goal is - represent the bike like your friend's father rode it. Your choice on what to do, but the components are just fine. Since gravel ridiing on road bikes has become very popular over the past several years, there's been a lot of understanding on what tires work well. My gravel might not be like your gravel, but generally speaking kobby tires aren't helpful unless you're riding on moist soil where the knobs can sink in and give traction. Dry gravel forestry roads, like I ride on in the PNW work just fine with fat tires, no tread.
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Old 01-17-23, 09:32 PM
  #35  
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Here is one of my Grand Sports with some Swift tire Sand Canyon tires, great setup
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Old 01-18-23, 08:38 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
Here is one of my Grand Sports with some Swift tire Sand Canyon tires, great setup
...and that's on 27" rims? If so, good-to-know.
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Old 01-18-23, 10:50 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
...and that's on 27" rims? If so, good-to-know.
Sand Canyons are as good as it gets for a wider, supple 27" tire. I have a set on my gravel-ish Shogun while I decide whether I'll switch to 700s.
Also, I've had good results using a dropout extender like the Wolf Tooth to coax a NR rear onto larger cogs.
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Old 01-18-23, 11:39 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ascherer View Post
Sand Canyons are as good as it gets for a wider, supple 27" tire. I have a set on my gravel-ish Shogun while I decide whether I'll switch to 700s.
Interesting, I checked and apparently the only source is directly from Swift? Anyway, not too expensive. And a tread somewhere between "smooth" and "knobby".

Originally Posted by ascherer View Post
Also, I've had good results using a dropout extender like the Wolf Tooth to coax a NR rear onto larger cogs.
I thought about that -- but note, this frame does not have forged dropouts with an integral hanger, not sure I've seen an extender used in conjunction with a "claw". I cannot, right now, think of a reason why it wouldn't work.

This AM, finished "breaking down" the wheels. (a) Hmm, I have never seen a Simplex branded freewheel before, but a quick check of Velobase and they exist. I looked like it needed a Regina remover; I had never bought one but had ground down a Suntour one in the 1970's to fit both brands and always got away with it. It worked on the Simplex too. Spins freely but sounds "dry" to me. A tiny bit of surface rust but I see no wear on cogs, so worthy to be repurposed on a different bike. (b) Rims are Araya, seem to be in good shape; again, not OEM for the Gran Sport. (c) The tires are Kenda, no model name but rated at 90PSI, was Kenda around int he 1970's? (d) No idea why, but the rear hub was as smooth as the day it was built, and the front... not so much, really due (overdue) for repacking.

FedEx says delivery of the Simple Green in the next 90 minutes. I cannot remember the last time I was this eager to de-grease stuff!
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Old 01-18-23, 01:40 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Interesting, I checked and apparently the only source is directly from Swift? Anyway, not too expensive. And a tread somewhere between "smooth" and "knobby".

I thought about that -- but note, this frame does not have forged dropouts with an integral hanger, not sure I've seen an extender used in conjunction with a "claw". I cannot, right now, think of a reason why it wouldn't work.
I think that’s right, only available direct from Swift. The tread is not unlike a deeper Pasela pattern. Measures about 30mm in my wheels.


Knockoff extenders are available cheap. Easy to experiment. I find both of these are cost-effective ways to try the direction you want. You can always upgrade! Have fun degreasing 😁
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Old 01-18-23, 01:55 PM
  #40  
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I just recently picked up the same bike. 73 Raleigh Gran Sport Carlton. The previous owner changed the bar tape back in 2010. I don't see any Campy parts.

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Old 01-18-23, 02:36 PM
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My Two, Factory Chromed, Raleigh Grand (Gran) Sport.

The bicycle is a rare 1968, Raleigh, Chromed Gran(d) Sport, I have two of them. I rode one from S Miami to San Fransisco via Boulder in 1972 with my friend, Bill Metcalf. He rode a Raleigh International. My bike was stolen in 1974. I found it 39 years later. The model was pictured in their 1970 catalog, only a few distributed to select Dealers in 1968 but never mass produced. I purchased the one pictured, with original Decals, in showroom condition, in 2020.

Decal and Factory Black Hand Painted with Red Pin Strip. 1968 original condition Raleigh Gran(d) Sport.

in 1972, I had changed my Derailleurs to Campagnola. This Bike had the other Decal colors as shown in the 1970 Catalog.


The bicycle is a rare 1968, Raleigh, Chromed Gran(d) Sport, I have two of them. I rode one from S Miami to San Fransisco via Boulder in 1972 with my friend, Bill Metcalf, via Milner Pass. He rode a Raleigh International. My bike was stolen in 1974. I found it 39 years later. The model was pictured in their 1970 catalog, only a few distributed to select Dealers in 1968 but never mass produced. I purchased the one with the Decals, in showroom condition, never rebuilt, in 2020.

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Old 01-19-23, 08:10 AM
  #42  
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I would point you towards 27 x 1 1/4 blackwall Paselas, just because I have been stunned at how smooth and swift a ride they provide. They are not really noticeably narrower than the 35mm Continental Cyclocross Speed tires I run on my dedicated dirt-roads bike (a '73 Raleigh Competition Mk. II converted to fixed/single-speed operation).

I will also note in passing that Ian Hibell did many of his epic rides on 27 x 1 1/4 Michelin Sport tires, including Norway to Cape of Good Hope and Cape Horn to Alaska. While he also used that size to be the first to cycle the Darien Gap in Panama, that was as much about dragging the bike through inhospitable jungle as it was actually riding ...
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Old 01-19-23, 09:35 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by GranSport70 View Post
The bicycle is a rare 1968, Raleigh, Chromed Gran(d) Sport, I have two of them.
Wow, that's some vintage Huret; the long-cage Luxe and the levers the length of fondue forks. My friend, whose father's bike my Gran Sport was, started riding with me in 1971, and he rode a Raleigh a step or two down the line-up but with those exact derailleurs/levers.

Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
I would point you towards 27 x 1 1/4 blackwall Paselas, just because I have been stunned at how smooth and swift a ride they provide.
Thanks, I'll take that into consideration, although I am really, really inclined to select tanwall tires...
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Old 01-19-23, 09:38 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Thanks, I'll take that into consideration, although I am really, really inclined to select tanwall tires...
I've run 32mm tanwall Paselas on an '86 Cannondale ST400 and been shocked at how smooth and slick a ride that provided. I also took that setup down Ross Road, one of the great secret dirt roads in this county, and was very pleased with how well it handled on the mixed gravel and hardpack.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Wow, that's some vintage Huret; the long-cage Luxe and the levers the length of fondue forks. My friend, whose father's bike my Gran Sport was, started riding with me in 1971, and he rode a Raleigh a step or two down the line-up but with those exact derailleurs/levers.
I have a set of the Huret Luxe derailleurs with the long levers. They came with the 1970 Super Course Mixte that my wife rides. I've put them on the '73 Super Course where I'm kind of collecting all the Super Course weirdness (Capella lugs, Nervar Sport crankset, Huret Luxe, etc.) from the Super Course decade.

The derailleur shifts fairly well but those long levers are a necessity because the return spring is downright vicious. Also it is the only bike on which I run a dork disk just because the rear derailleur looks to me to be vulnerable of being easily bent to the point of reaching the spokes.

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Old 01-19-23, 09:40 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by daka View Post
I have a set of the Huret Luxe derailleurs with the long levers. They came with the 1970 Super Course Mixte that my wife rides. I've put them on the '73 Super Course where I'm kind of collecting all the Super Course weirdness (Capella lugs, Nervar Sport crankset, Huret Luxe, etc.) from the Super Course decade.

The derailleur shifts fairly well but those long levers are a necessity because the return spring is downright vicious. Also it is the only bike on which I run a dork disk just because the rear derailleur looks to me to be vulnerable of being easily bent to the point of reaching the spokes.
I put that derailleur on my '71 Motobecane Grand Touring, thinking it would be an upgrade from the long cage Allvit, but it proved to be only cosmetically different. I never got either derailleur to shift into the 32 on the Atom freewheel without getting off and pushing the chain up there. I then switched to Suntour barcons and proceeded to pull the head right off the shifter cable the first time I tried to shift into low. The shop had given me a few bucks off for an open package in which they had swapped the original cables for something with a ball head. I had to ride the ten miles back to the shop in high to get the original Suntour cables with the barrel heads. Life would have been so much better if I had just bought a Suntour derailleur in the first place.
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Old 01-19-23, 09:48 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by WilliamT View Post
I just recently picked up the same bike. 73 Raleigh Gran Sport Carlton. The previous owner changed the bar tape back in 2010. I don't see any Campy parts.

I wanted one of these right from the first time I saw one at the Raleigh dealer where I was working in the early 1970s. The problem is that this 19" size has a 57 cm top tube. I spent a lot of time drooling over the Motobecane Grand Records before finally going whole-hog on a black P13 Paramount. Note the massive fork rake, which also appeared on most of the Mk IV professionals. Not sure what they were thinking there.
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Old 01-20-23, 08:20 AM
  #48  
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Cleaning up the F&F, the blue paint has few chips but the white more so. I need to hit to a hobby shop, or whatever, does anyone know a good match for the white? It looks like an Old English White (which I hate on cars, my Tiger -- see left -- got repainted 1980's Chrysler vivid white) which maybe, just maybe, can be matched? Looks like some hours with 2000-grit sandpaper trying to blend all the touch-ups.

Originally Posted by daka View Post
The derailleur shifts fairly well but those long levers are a necessity because the return spring is downright vicious. Also it is the only bike on which I run a dork disk just because the rear derailleur looks to me to be vulnerable of being easily bent to the point of reaching the spokes.
My friend kept the long levers when he switched to a Suntour Honor in, hmm, 1972? clunky-looking thing, but it indeed shifted. I happen to have a NOS short-cage Luxe RD, if I ever use it I'll keep an eye out for spoke clearance, thanks for the warning.

Originally Posted by sbarner View Post
Note the massive fork rake, which also appeared on most of the Mk IV professionals. Not sure what they were thinking there.
Hmm, I need to measure mine but I presume similar. If I ride it on unpaved trailer, maybe not a bad idea to have extra rake?
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Old 01-20-23, 10:14 AM
  #49  
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[QUOTE=tiger1964;22775179]Cleaning up the F&F, the blue paint has few chips but the white more so. I need to hit to a hobby shop, or whatever, does anyone know a good match for the white? It looks like an Old English White (which I hate on cars, my Tiger -- see left -- got repainted 1980's Chrysler vivid white) which maybe, just maybe, can be matched? Looks like some hours with 2000-grit sandpaper trying to blend all the touch-ups.

Rustoleum "Gloss White" is a very close match.


My friend kept the long levers when he switched to a Suntour Honor in, hmm, 1972? clunky-looking thing, but it indeed shifted. I happen to have a NOC short-cage Luxe RD, if I ever use it I'll keep an eye out for spoke clearance, thanks for the warning.


A short-cage Huret Luxe? That could be very lucrative on Ebay if you find yourself feeling a moment of avarice.
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Old 01-20-23, 11:08 AM
  #50  
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Hmm, I have discovered "half-radonneur" bars on the bike. Bars exit the stem at 90 degrees on the right, bend up on the left. Well, I knew the bike had been in a collision. Somehow straightening the bars and re-using them sounds a bit . Also, the brake levers -- not the base, but the levers themselves -- are a bit bent in where they fit into the bases... that I think I can fix, it's not much angular deflection. Milremo handball plugs, I wonder if those are original?

I might soon at least post a photo of all the shininess, bags o'parts. It might take a while for my hands to recover from scrubbing everything in mineral spirits, then in Simple Green solution, then clear water, then drying. i might pass on buffing all of the aluminum to a mirror shine; (a) not original, (b) if I ride on unpaved trails, it might be a bit silly.

Originally Posted by daka View Post
Rustoleum "Gloss White" is a very close match.
Thanks! Well, unlike the Testor's blue in a .4oz bottle, with Rustoleum I'm looking at a quart. Both extremes. At least it's readily available.

Originally Posted by daka View Post
A short-cage Huret Luxe? That could be very lucrative on Ebay if you find yourself feeling a moment of avarice.
I'll keep that in mind. Mostly, anything I don't want to keep forever from my smallest parts stash I've been giving away. The Luxe so far I've been hanging onto as a Plan B in case I weary of tinkering with the Simplex 543 on my Gitane (different topic).
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