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Being Faithful to C&V

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Being Faithful to C&V

Old 08-26-22, 06:22 AM
  #1  
Kilroy1988 
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Being Faithful to C&V

Good morning, folks,

I hope all are well! I'm about to take off on a ride on my recently acquired 2012 Look 675. It's a great bicycle, the first carbon fiber frame I've owned in about a decade and I've already got a few hundred miles on it including a century ride. I knew I had too many old bikes to keep around due to storage constraints and personally I felt like I was spending too much time fixing them up and not enough time riding... Reckoned the 675 would put me out on the road without those wee hours of the morning and late evening being taken up by the C&V craze.

But I just keep looking, and tinkering, and dreaming! And every time I turn to admire the 675 I think "cool bike" then turn away. It's really hard to develop the kind of fondness towards it that I feel about bicycles that I've restored and built up myself, and the great "get-up-and-go" feeling during rides comes with a major sacrifice of character and comfort. As much as I realize it's more about the man than the machine, well, I have to admit it's also about the machine!

Still scheming and dreaming, thinking that in the coming months I'll come up with an alternative that fits the bill with one foot in both worlds like a new steel frameset paired with tasteful modern components, which will both support a current builder and give me some of the luxuries like integrated shifting.

-Gregory

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Old 08-26-22, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
....
Still scheming and dreaming, thinking that in the coming months I'll come up with an alternative that fits the bill with one foot in both worlds like a new steel frameset paired with tasteful modern components, which will both support a current builder and give me some of the luxuries like integrated shifting.

-Gregory
There's something to be said for a custom steel frame.
I got one to use for commuting and travel about 22 years ago. There are fittings for the various details that I care about and paint that is attractive and durable.
Being a custom, it is novel and unique. Also, since it's not some vintage icon, I don't have too feel bad about riding it in crappy weather since there's no burden to preserve it for history or whatever. A repaint won't negatively affect the value (but the good modern paint has held up very well, so no worries about repainting yet).

If you haven't had a custom frame yet, I'd encourage you to get one. It can be a fun experience, where you get to decide exactly what you want. There is also the aspect of selecting the right builder and letting them add their own influence to the design.

This is the bike that hobby builder Rich Powers built for me .....



Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-26-22, 06:41 AM
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Know how you feel.
Bought a Canyon Endurace CL about five years ago.
It's nice.
I ride it sometimes.
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Old 08-26-22, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
know how you feel.
Bought a canyon endurace cl about five years ago.
It's nice.
I ride it sometimes on my trainer.
fify.
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Old 08-26-22, 06:51 AM
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Your LOOK “looks” pretty awesome to me!
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Old 08-26-22, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Your LOOK “looks” pretty awesome to me!
I do think it looks awesome, don't get me wrong... I spent a couple months researching used carbon framesets with aspects like geometry, comfort and quality control being important to me, and settled on the 675 after learning that Team Cofidis rode these framesets during a couple editions of Paris-Roubaix after the bike was released in 2012 and watching Hambini dissect some Look frames and almost always being impressed by the carbon layup and tolerances. It just doesn't have that spirited nature that a slender steel frame possesses, and I guess I'm more attached to the feelings associated with riding such bikes than I thought!

-Gregory
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Old 08-26-22, 07:16 AM
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Just posting this picture is blasphemy and knocks you down yet another rung on the ladder descending straight to the LBS (Lucifer's Bike Shop).

No religious affiliation.
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Old 08-26-22, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
There's something to be said for a custom steel frame.
I got one to use for commuting and travel about 22 years ago. There are fittings for the various details that I care about and paint that is attractive and durable.
Being a custom, it is novel and unique. Also, since it's not some vintage icon, I don't have too feel bad about riding it in crappy weather since there's no burden to preserve it for history or whatever. A repaint won't negatively affect the value (but the good modern paint has held up very well, so no worries about repainting yet).

If you haven't had a custom frame yet, I'd encourage you to get one. It can be a fun experience, where you get to decide exactly what you want. There is also the aspect of selecting the right builder and letting them add their own influence to the design.

This is the bike that hobby builder Rich Powers built for me .....



Steve in Peoria
Man is that lovely!
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Old 08-26-22, 07:39 AM
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They're bikes so ride what you like.

But I will admit too that pretty much each time I try to go "more modern" I just don't connect with the bike.

This is crazy light, crazy fast, crazy cool looking and just "Ok" feeling to me. It doesn't stir my soul.




This one is just so sexy good under me on the road. Old school vintage sweetness!




And yet this more modern take on steel, probably one of the most advanced designs, has totally wormed it's way into my heart for how it feels under me on the road.


​​​​​​
Then this almost 40 year old frame with it's mix of old and newer parts is also quite the amazing ride.



i guess my point is I don't care what age, material, parts, etc are on the bike as long as the ride speaks to me. I mainly have bikes that fall into the C&V realm but don't mind straying when I want to.
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Old 08-26-22, 08:14 AM
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I have a similar situation with my Orbea Avant. From the first time I rode it, it had issues that prevented more than fleeting enjoyment while riding it. Spring of last year, I finally tore the bike down and basically rebuilt it, including new internal cabling and replacing the bb/crank set. When I had it all back together and took it for a ride, it was a totally different bike. I really acquired a liking for the bike, and bought a set of Hed Ardennes Performance disc for it. This year I have been riding it off and on. While I still really like riding the bike, I find myself mostly riding my titanium Airborne Zeppelin, or my Lemond Poprad. I still think about just selling it, but every time I ride it, I think I should keep it. I do know for sure, My Zep and Poprad are going only where I take them.
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Old 08-26-22, 08:15 AM
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That's a snazzy looking bike, and in modern bike years, it's well on it's way to being vintage!
I think the trick with those bikes is if the headset height fits you, but it makes for a nice "Look".

My newest bike is a 2013, and when I look at new bikes I'm amazed and amused how they keep coming up with new trends to sell. Then when i see the nosebleed prices, I think an "obsolete" bike is just fine, and if I WAS going to spend that much, it should be for something interesting like pretty Italian steel.
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Old 08-26-22, 08:29 AM
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Quote: @jamesdak

And yet this more modern take on steel, probably one of the most advanced designs, has totally wormed it's way into my heart for how it feels under me on the road.




James, for what it's worth, IMO, this is one of my favorites of your bikes. I am gladdened that you like riding it so much. My Zeppelin is the one that has been doing that to me, since I changed it to Porteur bars. Nothing like a bike that just feels like all is right, not much thought in execution, just pure joy of the ride.
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Old 08-26-22, 10:46 AM
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Get a classic Look Tubulaire bike. It has the look and comfortable ride of a classic bike and the lightweight of a carbon bike. My Look KG96 with Shimano 600 tricolor groupset.

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Old 08-26-22, 11:04 AM
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I find a clear coated cf frame gives me more to look at than if it were painted. It's almost as good as gazing at my vintage bikes.
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Old 08-26-22, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
I do think it looks awesome, don't get me wrong... I spent a couple months researching used carbon framesets with aspects like geometry, comfort and quality control being important to me, and settled on the 675 after learning that Team Cofidis rode these framesets during a couple editions of Paris-Roubaix after the bike was released in 2012 and watching Hambini dissect some Look frames and almost always being impressed by the carbon layup and tolerances. It just doesn't have that spirited nature that a slender steel frame possesses, and I guess I'm more attached to the feelings associated with riding such bikes than I thought!

-Gregory
I think you're on the right track. You know what you like and will fit the bill. A custom frame elevates that to a whole other level. We can futz with these fantastic old steeds all we like but may never get to the true sweet spot, usually no matter for me, I make them work and work well anyway.

Case in point, these both ride great for me, 6cm+ apart in size. They were used to build the Strawberry from, its a bit in between so it will carry me to the end of the line when I'm older than most of my bikes. extended HT and good TT length with plenty long ST makes for a fantastic ride, Dave Levy of TiCycles did a fantastic job with this, couldn't be happier.

This sort of endeavor elevates your whole game, 1st there's the $$$$$$ which gets your attention very quickly, you better be all in or that alone can harpoon you. We have a better understanding than many in that we know how hard this can be, it can be very hard to temper what you think you want with what the builder knows you need. You must trust them and they have to have the final say. This is nonnegotiable IMO, you're paying big money for their expertise and you must come to understand any confusion on your part and work through it, you're only paying for a reasonable struggle not a death match where you are trying to get them to do the impossible.

If you're truly all in as you should be, it will be a great outcome and worth every cent.

So this


And this


Begat this



Dave was scratching his head a bit when we did the fitting, he had asked for these to do it with based on the difference in size, was surprised I had them setup the same despite the difference.

He measured and remeasured then you could see a switch flick on, he grinned and said "I know exactly what to do" and he did.

They all fly down the road even with my slow azz on them, especially the new one.

I think a lot of folks think they know what they want and maybe they do, but the builder must have the final say, he is obligated to make sure you get what you pay for, even if its not what you think you want.

Last edited by merziac; 08-26-22 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 08-26-22, 01:08 PM
  #16  
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Over on the CR List I feel that many treat vintage bikes as religious artifacts. Change a binder bolt out and many scoff. Put clipless pedals on a bike and post a picture and you can get excommunicated. Here, not so much.

Greg, go ahead and cheat every once in awhile, I for one won't hold it against you.
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Old 08-26-22, 01:08 PM
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It's all about the Koolaid, steel truly has soul and more after we pour ours into them, maybe a bit of a curse as we expect more but as we know the payoff can be huge as we well know.

It can be intangible till its not, then you know when it really tips in one way or the other, I think the middle ground is where we thrive as we sort through it with our visions, wants, desires and foolishness.
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Old 08-26-22, 01:33 PM
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Agreed that the older stuff just has that...how do you say "je ne sais quoi" in italian?

And another vote for custom steel. Mine would be a sport touring frame that has a blend of modern and vintage design elements and some personal eccentricities.
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Old 08-26-22, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff View Post
...how do you say "je ne sais quoi" in italian?
I think it's "Che cosa potrebbe andare storto," but my Italian is poor and rusty.
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Old 08-26-22, 05:23 PM
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Maybe a lugged carbon frame would help bridge those worlds. The Look 585 has always had a very good reputation and looks good IMO. I’ve always considered it the French equivalent of the Colnago C40. I’ve owned 3 CF road bikes, all Colnagos (I don’t count my Alan cross frame as it gets rare road use) and they’ve all been great but the only one that really sings to me is the C40. The EPS, also lugged, is a really nice bike but I only choose it over a steel bike when I know there’s a lot of hard climbing to do or I’m just feeling lazy.

If you’re going to have multiple bikes, I think it’s good to mix some CF, aluminum, and titanium in there. Variety is the spice of life! That being said, out of the 20-ish bikes I have, 3 are carbon fiber and they aren’t on the list of the first 3 or 4 I’d run out of the house with if it catches on fire. Well maybe the C40, it has a lot of sentimental value. I’d at least set it close to the door before going back for the Cinelli.
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Old 08-26-22, 05:34 PM
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i would say go for custom....you can get the little details are some times difficult to get on either current bikes or even vintage.... say eyelets for fenders and a rack on an otherwise more racy bike
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Old 08-26-22, 05:40 PM
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M

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs View Post
That being said, out of the 20-ish bikes I have, 3 are carbon fiber and they aren’t on the list of the first 3 or 4 I’d run out of the house with if it catches on fire. Well maybe the C40, it has a lot of sentimental value. I’d at least set it close to the door before going back for the Cinelli.
That’s a good idea for a thread: Which bike in your fleet would you use to prop the door open while you dash in to retrieve three others from a burning building?
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Old 08-26-22, 05:54 PM
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I almost bought a Look or a Time at one point.
when both were doing the seat post mast thing as I recall.
then Look has that exclusive to them oversized bearing crank set...

I did not spend my money that way.

I think the French engineered bikes are probably the best. Maybe a Colnago C60
( have not followed after that )

forbidden fruit will stay on the tree
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Old 08-26-22, 05:54 PM
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My newest bike is a 2012 Fuji Stratos, a bike for the Japanese market. It is a TIG welded steel with Fuji Elios 2 custom butted CrMo with outer butted seat tube. Now to have brifters put back on. Setup mostly with Shimano 105 9 speed.


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Old 08-26-22, 09:23 PM
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For me, a lugged steel frame with a horizontal top tube simply looks right.
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