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CR list?

Old 08-27-22, 08:34 AM
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john903
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CR list?

Ok so I am fairly new to the forum. I am really enjoying my cool old steel steed. I really enjoy this forum, lots of great knowledge and friendly comradery.
But, what is "CR list", or "check out CR site", or "those folks on CR". What in the world is CR? Am I missing another cool vintage site or what?
Anyway have a great day.
Someone mentioned what my steed was. Here is a bad picture i took while building it up. I call it Che Cose which means "what is it" Someday I will post updated pictures.

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Old 08-27-22, 08:35 AM
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Classic Renedezvous
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Old 08-27-22, 08:53 AM
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Classic Rendezvous (CR) is a Google group based on vintage bikes built before 1984. Bike Forums Classic and Vintage (BF C&V) serves pretty much the same population, and many of us post on both sites. The biggest difference is that CR is heavily moderated, you have to use your full name and location, and you'd better not post pix of bikes with clipless pedals, index shifting, etc. I like to think of CR as a wine bar (classy, perhaps a bit snooty), whereas I think of BF C&V as a dive bar (most anything goes, but more egalitarian). Heck, people post pix of their carbon fiber bikes here from time to time here. There are some very knowledgable old timers that post on CR that aren't on BF.

Are you missing another cool vintage bike site? Yeah, go check it out.
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Old 08-27-22, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for the replies. Ok that expains it. Yes it is a cool site as well. @gugie I like your analogies of the too. It's funny because last Saturday two of our places we like to visit were closed or didn't open until 3:00. We were walking past an old dive looking bar and thought what the heck lets check them out. Guess what we had a great time hanging out talking, drinking a good beer and playing the CD juke box and generally having fun. So yes I totally get what you mean.

Have a great day, and bike ride. I am putting my fenders back on my bike today. I think it is going to be an early fall.
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Old 08-27-22, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Classic Rendezvous (CR) is a Google group based on vintage bikes built before 1984. Bike Forums Classic and Vintage (BF C&V) serves pretty much the same population, and many of us post on both sites. The biggest difference is that CR is heavily moderated, you have to use your full name and location, and you'd better not post pix of bikes with clipless pedals, index shifting, etc. I like to think of CR as a wine bar (classy, perhaps a bit snooty), whereas I think of BF C&V as a dive bar (most anything goes, but more egalitarian). Heck, people post pix of their carbon fiber bikes here from time to time here. There are some very knowledgable old timers that post on CR that aren't on BF.

Are you missing another cool vintage bike site? Yeah, go check it out.
Originally Posted by john903 View Post
Thanks for the replies. Ok that expains it. Yes it is a cool site as well. @gugie I like your analogies of the too. It's funny because last Saturday two of our places we like to visit were closed or didn't open until 3:00. We were walking past an old dive looking bar and thought what the heck lets check them out. Guess what we had a great time hanging out talking, drinking a good beer and playing the CD juke box and generally having fun. So yes I totally get what you mean.

Have a great day, and bike ride. I am putting my fenders back on my bike today. I think it is going to be an early fall.
As many of us know, a lot can be said for getting down and dirty in the trenches just as much so as being fully ridged can be the ultimate baseline to draw inspiration from.

As of right now there are hundreds of knats azz correct C+V bikes lined up as far as the eye can see in Auburn IN at the biggest bike show there is likely to be for awhile.

Should have gone and will be kicking myself for a long time having not gone.

That being said, I have little to no desire to go down the all Campy, fully correct like most every other top of line classic bike, there are 10's of 1000's of those already that never get ridden and can only be drooled over.

I get it and appreciate the time, effort, $$$$$ and energy it takes to get them right but they can be the ones to carry that torch and I will do it my way, for me and they can look away if they need to.
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Old 08-27-22, 01:56 PM
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Why settle for mediocrity when perfection is attainable?

CR Group used to be a listserv. No images, all text. I actually liked that. Made one to be precise in describing things.

and a few legendary discussions - the Baylis / Cunningham Carlsbad Masi, Confente , Medici discussion.

that could be the basis of a major motion picture, well Netflix or Amazon, Apple Movie.
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Old 08-27-22, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by john903 View Post
Ok so I am fairly new to the forum. I am really enjoying my cool old steel steed. I really enjoy this forum, lots of great knowledge and friendly comradery.
But, what is "CR list", or "check out CR site", or "those folks on CR". What in the world is CR? Am I missing another cool vintage site or what?
Anyway have a great day.
I've been a member for a while and to be completely honest, I didn't know what "CR" was either, I just never took the time to ask.

btw, what's a "steed" ?
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Old 08-27-22, 02:42 PM
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Ok, I was well aware of CR. In fact, I probably visited that site before Bike Forums. But, can somebody explain "Drew" to me? I mean I get the gist, but I want the history.
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Old 08-27-22, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Classic Rendezvous (CR) is a Google group based on vintage bikes built before 1984. Bike Forums Classic and Vintage (BF C&V) serves pretty much the same population, and many of us post on both sites. The biggest difference is that CR is heavily moderated, you have to use your full name and location, and you'd better not post pix of bikes with clipless pedals, index shifting, etc. I like to think of CR as a wine bar (classy, perhaps a bit snooty), whereas I think of BF C&V as a dive bar (most anything goes, but more egalitarian). Heck, people post pix of their carbon fiber bikes here from time to time here. There are some very knowledgable old timers that post on CR that aren't on BF.

Are you missing another cool vintage bike site? Yeah, go check it out.
I have posted pics of both and the listmiester did not have me executed. Maybe the indexed shifting wasn't obvious and it was on a Waterford Paramount.

I kind of like the full name and location requirement. As you can see from my posts, I do my full name here also.

(Dang, I almost started to type my CR signature}
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Old 08-27-22, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
I have posted pics of both and the listmiester did not have me executed.
Dale musta been asleep at the wheel.
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Old 08-27-22, 03:40 PM
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The thing that bugs me sometimes about CR is that many members treat vintage bicycles as religious artifacts.
But then I'm just the Bike Butcher of Portland, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
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Old 08-27-22, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
Ok, I was well aware of CR. In fact, I probably visited that site before Bike Forums. But, can somebody explain "Drew" to me? I mean I get the gist, but I want the history.
Oh, that is so funny. I believe I remember the origin of the term. There was a bike that had some down tube shifter posts mangled off of it. There was also a picture of a wacky DIY mailbox with the name drew crudely painted on it. How the 2 got associated, I can’t remember. I think an forum member miamijim might have had something to do with it.
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Old 08-27-22, 04:09 PM
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Ah, here is the origin of drew
Tommasini: I hate Drew more than words can tell
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Old 08-27-22, 06:10 PM
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Think of this forum as the Rat Rod forum. Funky can be just as cool as anally retentive restorations. Or, the best bike is the one you ride.
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Old 08-27-22, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
The thing that bugs me sometimes about CR is that many members treat vintage bicycles as religious artifacts.
But then I'm just the Bike Butcher of Portland, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
it's not the Holy Land Amusement Park there
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Old 08-28-22, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
Thanks for the History lesson. I didn't think it would be so long.
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Old 08-28-22, 07:56 AM
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I could garner more business for my Freewheel Spa if I posted on CR, but I've resisted. I like my clipless pedals on my '71 Paramount, which is a P-13 but has a triple crankset, a Campy Rally RD, and a Brooks B5N (the horrors! ).

I also don't understand the 1984 cut-off date. Even my '83 Lotus Super Pro Aero doesn't qualify because it came standard with Dura Ace AX index shifting and aero brake levers (not to mention the clipless pedals the original owner installed).

Here on C&V, we appreciate each other's quirks and preferences--- even when we diverge widely from purity and orthodoxy.
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Old 08-28-22, 08:27 AM
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If the CR list took down it's rules, it'd just be like this forum, so I'm fine with that. As noted there are a lot of members that contribute to both sites, but there's also a bunch of very knowledgeable people that post only on CR, so it's worth stopping by now and then for me.
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Old 08-28-22, 08:31 AM
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Newer members might check out this thread.

​​​​​​Bike Forum insider jokes and jargon
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Old 08-28-22, 08:46 AM
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I've been a participating member here in BF C&V since 2005 (yikes!), and one fairly common phenomenon that I don't see on groups such as Classic Rendezvous or iBOB (both now Google groups, but both running longer than this one), but that I see here is someone relatively new comes in with lots and lots of questions, starts lots and lots of threads, perhaps also contributes to lots and lots of threads, but then disappears as suddenly as first appeared. Kind of a short-term, high-intensity approach to participation that I don't see on those other lists (and, fwiw, I rarely contribute to those other lists; I read iBOB regularly and CR once in a while). Every now and then when a zombie thread gets new life, I'm reminded of those participants. I'm sure there are perfectly good reasons for these patterns of participation, so I'm wondering if it's somehow unique to this particular community.
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Old 08-28-22, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
The thing that bugs me sometimes about CR is that many members treat vintage bicycles as religious artifacts.
But then I'm just the Bike Butcher of Portland, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
Nothing wrong with modifying bikes if you know what you are doing. What bugs me are those who have little experience riding who find a vintage bike and immediately want to "upgrade" without giving the original components a chance.
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Old 08-28-22, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Nothing wrong with modifying bikes if you know what you are doing. What bugs me are those who have little experience riding who find a vintage bike and immediately want to "upgrade" without giving the original components a chance.
It might be a matter of degree and what the mods are.
Many CR folks know that Peter Weigle has a habit of modifying old Raleighs (and mostly Internationals) to more of a 650B rando style. I don't recall anyone giving Peter any grief about it.

There is an acceptance of things that accommodate physical needs too, such as the widespread use of clipless pedals on bikes that folks rode on the CR gatherings. Some of that is due to the scarcity of slotted cleat shoes, and some is that folks just find clipless easier to deal with. I think the same goes for lower gearing. While these things aren't shunned, they don't seem to be an area of discussion either.

I've been participating in the CR list since.. around the year 2000?? The membership has changed a bit and the novelty has worn off. Maybe everyone learned everything there is to learn?? Or maybe everyone found their holy grails and ran out of questions (which might be my situation).
I know that I appreciate the CR list and the folks and wisdom that resides there.

Steve in Peoria, USA
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Old 08-28-22, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
Thanks for the History lesson. I didn't think it would be so long.
I think there was just a greater amount of traffic or replies in C&V back then. The like button has definitely cut back on responses (in my opinion.
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Old 08-28-22, 06:16 PM
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The current CR list/group started in 2012, but it was around starting in late 2002 as a mailing list hosted on the now defunct bikelist.org site. I was able to get most of the old archives from Alex Wetmore and constructed an online archive site. That's at

https://www.smontanaro.net/CR

The best way to search it is probably via your favorite search engine using search queries like
site:www.smontanaro.net Brian Baylis
There is a simple filter capability on the site itself that allows you to restrict display by email/username or subject. For example, at the above URL, you might keep messages mentioning just

Brian Baylis

Which would restrict the monthly index display to Brian's posts or posts which mention his name in the subject. (It is quite restrictive. Took me maybe ten minutes to implement.)

My favorite recent discovery was of the framebuilder Richard Moon through a post by Brian. Those of you who knew Brian know he didn't get super excited about too many other framebuilders' work, but he really liked what Richard Moon produced.

https://www.smontanaro.net/CR/2003/03/1571

That led me down a Wayback Machine rabbit hole here

https://web.archive.org/web/20020605...lab/images.htm

Commence descent into the rabbit hole.

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Old 08-28-22, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
It might be a matter of degree and what the mods are.
Many CR folks know that Peter Weigle has a habit of modifying old Raleighs (and mostly Internationals) to more of a 650B rando style. I don't recall anyone giving Peter any grief about it.

There is an acceptance of things that accommodate physical needs too, such as the widespread use of clipless pedals on bikes that folks rode on the CR gatherings. Some of that is due to the scarcity of slotted cleat shoes, and some is that folks just find clipless easier to deal with. I think the same goes for lower gearing. While these things aren't shunned, they don't seem to be an area of discussion either.

I've been participating in the CR list since.. around the year 2000?? The membership has changed a bit and the novelty has worn off. Maybe everyone learned everything there is to learn?? Or maybe everyone found their holy grails and ran out of questions (which might be my situation).
I know that I appreciate the CR list and the folks and wisdom that resides there.

Steve in Peoria, USA
ennui perhaps.
the original list was clanky but pretty easy to search, allowing wild cards.

I referenced early this year what was posted near 20 years ago. Some no doubt have drifted off. Some would require a seance to contact.
when the list was 1,200 or so that seemed like a good amount. Note that back then one could Read the archives, just not post before signing up. Now, to read an individual must sign up.
the number of active members was declining before the move to Googlegroup.
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