katsup

eBay is the only outlet I know to actually sell some items at a decent price. I don't like some of their policies, but I deal with it. Granted I only sell between $3-5k a year.

They usually hold funds if there is a cancel or return transaction. I've gotten the fees of a canceled transaction after some time or by complaining to eBay about not getting it refunded.

guy1138

That's *only* if it is listed as "goods and services", right? If you receive under friends & family, it doesn't count towards the $600?

guy1138

Yeah, exactly. If I sell a project bike that I've had and upgraded for years, how am I supposed to have any idea of the cost-basis. I spent 3 year gathering the proper Campy bits for my Bianchi! If I sell it, it will be for a loss, but I'll have to pay taxes on it!!! Crazy.

guy1138

Originally it was. But about 15 years ago big junk sellers started spamming keywords and made the search impossible, at least for electronics and auto parts. It's impossible to find what you're actually looking for without scrolling through pages of spam. amazon is getting to be the same way with their affiliates. On Ebay, the vintage bike stuff hasn't been affected, but shopping for new parts is almost impossible.

smontanaro 

This place was advertising at Auburn.

Bikelist
This isn't an endorsement, just an observation. Unless and until some site like this takes off, people will be stuck with eBay, Craigslist, and FB Marketplace. (Tom Jordan gave it a good try a few years ago with the now defunct A Great Vintage site, but couldn't make it work.) If something like this is to succeed, it will have to appeal to us, CR, the CABE, the Paceline, MTBR, etc. Pinkbike seems pretty successful, but doesn't seem to cater to the entire used bike hobby.

smontanaro 

My wife doesn't deal in bike parts (funny thing). She sells occasionally on eBay (mostly small stuff that needs a wider market, like sneakers), but mostly on FB Marketplace these days. She says CL is kaput. Again, most transactions are F2F.

joesch

Yes this is why I dont want to sell bikes on ebay since that act and 1099. It also makes parting out the more likely choice for nice bikes. From that link:

from $20,000 in aggregate payments and 200 transactions to solely a threshold of $600 in aggregate payments (with no minimum transaction requirement).

scarlson 

I agree, the 1099 is crazy. I quit ebay because of it too. And now I'm very careful about my paypal (spread transactions around between family and friends' accounts, ask buyers to do "friends and family/gift"). I've been paranoid, it's true.

BUT, let's look at the wording.
The IRS says don't pay taxes on a loss. Only on income.
And, crucially, the 1099-K is informational. if you sold this stuff at a loss, you can receive the 1099 and just not file it. At all. Personal items sold at a loss are still not subject to reporting.

Then, if they audit you, if you've sold a bike, bike part, etc, and you don't have a receipt for acquiring it, the IRS is going to have a pretty hard time asserting that you handcrafted the bike part to make some small amount. They know this. So we're not going to get audited. Not for that!

I think they really only care about valuables being sold: stamps, art, etc. The stuff that the rich used to be able to use as a proxy for currency without any tax.

Bottom line: the IRS will rarely, if ever, make you prove a loss.

That said, Ebay is a dumpster fire for many reasons and I'm glad I stepped back from it. I still use craigslist. It's slow, but it does appear to work, and there are WAY fewer weirdos on there these days.

roadcrankr

You've got some wild ideas there, but let me focus on this bit of your dialog.
The IRS receives the 1099 data into their system. The filer that sends you the 1099 also transmits it to the IRS.
Do not ignore it. And by "ignore," I mean not filing the amounts on your 1040. It will flag every single time.
Complete a Schedule C and report the net profit as taxable income. With a modicum of bookkeeping, one can avoid taxation entirely.
The U.S. tax compliance system is far more robust than fifty years ago. They know about every dollar from a 1099 with your SS# on it.

One could draw a fair parallel with winning ten grand on one transaction at a Vegas casino. The winner receives a 1099.
However, that winner likely spent the same amount to win that. There's a section on the forms to negate those winnings.
Naturally, it becomes much more difficult to cancel out winning a $10M jackpot at the same casino. Income tax city there.

squirtdad

still have my big and pocket picket slide rules

Sedgemop 

I sell a lot more vintage drums and drum parts than I do bike parts and rarely use Ebay. Facebook Marketplace or Reverb are the best spots for selling. With FB, there are sub groups and fan clubs of any number of things where Marketplace listings can be posted. This greatly expands the reach of a Marketplace post with no fees involved. For instance, I just shipped some vintage drums parts to Australia through a sub group without Facebook taking anything. There's even a few slide rule groups:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Slide.Rule.Vintage

smontanaro 

Aye, there's the rub. It's a hobby. Most people probably haven't tracked their purchases and sales over the years, so won't be able to prove a loss.

roadcrankr

No rub. No loss...just no gain. Estimates and hand-scribbled records work under IRS audit. They're not interested in the small time seller.

TimmyT 

Bill, are you generally going to estate/tag sales and reselling? What is your business model?

I feel like ebay was a garage sale and then it saw Amazon Marketplace. Now, it's some sort of Amazon outlet. Plenty of orders come in amazon boxes. It seems weird.

SoCaled 

FYI - Just looked at Bikelist for the first time, Superbe derailleur in the bf "ebay/craigs are you looking?" section was listed there. They take a 9.9% sellers fee on sale which they say is less than others & like Ebay - "Marketplaces like BikeList are now required to send sellers a 1099k if they sell $600 or more on the platform in the calendar year. Previously, a 1099k was only required when a seller reached either their state’s threshold or the federal threshold of $20,000 in sales and 200 or more transactions in a calendar year."

smontanaro 

Yeah, that was me (not the seller, the BF promoter/outer)...

SoCaled 

Great, now I am going to start having an open browser tab with slide rule forums

wrk101

1. you have to continually look for new sources as it changes over time. Estate sales are rare for me, tend to have high prices.

2. the more categories you master, the better you do. If you just look for one category, you are going to spend a lot of time and money on gas, hoping to find something. Meanwhile, you will walk right past deals in categories you don’t know. I’ve been doing more books lately. Yes, they sell SLOW. But it’s not unusual to get 25x to 100x on your items. Book pickers rely on the ISBN bar code on newer books. No barcode, and they have no idea. I pretty much ONLY buy books that don’t have a barcode. Little to no competition from other pickers, and less competition from other sellers!!!

3. I’m always looking for new outlets too. EBay carries a big stick and can (and does) ban sellers at any time!

Manny66 

That strongly worded letter accomplished 2 things.. #1 ,I had an Ebay representative actually call me and asked me to reconsider Cancelling my Ebay Seller account as they were in the process of Reevaluating their Policies due to the large number of Sellers Canceling their Ebay accounts.
And #2, Triggered You emotionally , it's obvious that my letter hurt your little feelings and you're in need of a big Ol' box of Kleenex. I can ship you out a box buddy ...

cudak888 

1. So this Strongly Worded Letter™ successfully resulted in eBay calling you to give you an unsolicited sales pitch about why you should stay with them, even though they're terrible? I think that falls under the definition of an abusive relationship

2. Someone has to comment on the ineffectiveness of the Strongly Worded Letter™ to an internet conglomerate who can well afford to lose you and many others like you. Face it, they haven't been supporting the hobbyist seller for years now - they're just a variation on Amazon's 3rd Party Seller system at this point. Their call to you and other sellers like you is a form of saving face and publicity damage control more than anything else. They want you to come to this forum and point out they did something about your angry letter; it makes them sound as if they care. They don't.

-Kurt

Kilroy1988 

Strange interaction, that last one... I took Kurt's original post totally tongue-in-cheek. I concur with the phunny bone bit (which apparently Kurt edited out of his post above).

Also, why do you Capitalize so many Random Words in your Posts, Manny?

-Gregory

cudak888 

Keeping myself in check - just because others use personal attacks to make their point doesn't give me the right to respond in kind. Two wrongs do not make a right.

-Kurt

Kilroy1988 

I'm not sure why suggesting that someone lighten up should be considered a "personal attack." We can all use a reminder to sit back and enjoy the ride from time to time - as I said, I saw no malice in your initial post and Manny probably took you a bit too seriously. I recall one thread I was recently going through where someone was adamant that another member was calling him a liar just for asking the "pics or it didn't happen" bit. Ha.

The only member I'm glad we apparently drove away with our ridicule was that Swiss fellow recently... Otherwise, I think we all get along alright.

Back to Manny's original point, though, I must admit that I'm impressed eBay actually has a live consultant who is available to make that call in response to such a letter. If they *truly* didn't care at all then they certainly wouldn't be paying people to do that!

-Gregory

wrk101

eBay doesn't care about small sellers, and they haven't cared for years. Their definition of small might be $100,000 a year in sales, may be even higher.

So in the end, each one of us has to decide whether it is worth it to YOU. Ebay could care less. But as a person that profits from the relationship, I'll continue. The selfish side of me would like to encourage ALL sellers of vintage bike stuff to IMMEDIATELY stop selling on ebay!!! Do it!! Do it!!

Sellers have a similar love/hate relationship with Amazon. Their fees make ebay look CHEAP! But I know people that still do quite well, despite the myriad of rules and fees.

eBay's own definition of Hobby Seller is 500 listings a month or less. Thats the level I am at. IRS defines it differently of course.

Ebay's top store level is called "Enterprise". It costs $3,000 PER MONTH and is meant for someone listing 100,000 items a month or more...... Me I have a "basic" ebay store.


If you really want to rant on eBay, look up their VeRO policy (verified Rights Owner). Many companies will challenge your sales listing, basically saying you are not an "approved" seller of their product, even if it is used, and even if you bought it new. Had a Yeti Rambler cup for sale recently. Yeti challenged it and poof, my listing was toast. Ebay told me I could contact Yeti to get approval. Sure, I am going to go to Yeti to get approval to sell one used cup. And who keeps receipts on everything they have bought?

scarlson 

Based on the information I have from my lawyer friends, if you don't report a low value 1099-k, most of the time, the IRS will take no action. When the IRS does take action, most of the time it will be an inquiry, sometimes with a bill assuming the entire amount was profit. You can answer the inquiry, and usually quickly make peace with the IRS. In rare circumstances, an audit could be stimulated, but not just for a low value 1099-k. Keep in mind: only profits are taxable. Non-taxable income is not required by law to be reported at all, although it might be best to explain if the IRS so requests.

I've been dealing with this for a while now, because it happened in VT and MA before it happened to everywhere else. See this page on the VT tax website for clarification:
https://tax.vermont.gov/business-and...ing-tax/1099-k
I will post an excerpt from the page:
"Meghan is downsizing her home and sells furniture on an auction site for $5,000. The original purchase price of the furniture was $9,000. The $5,000 IS NOT subject to tax or any reporting as it is a function of selling personal items at a loss."
"Mario, a full-time accountant, also has a hobby selling hand-painted holiday decorations on an auction site. He sells $3,268 worth of decorations over the course of the year. That $3,268 amount should be included when calculating gross receipts for his income tax return. He may be able to deduct certain expenses".

I believe most of us fall into either Meghan or Mario's camp. There is a lot of information out there saying you should report everything, but in my experience the risk of audit is low. A lot of the information given out is from sources that (coincidence?) also prepare taxes. They want these things to be complex and they want to increase our anxiety about audits because they make more money. See: the turbo tax lobby.

As always, "the above is not tax advice."