vegasbike

i know how you love this game...
i couldnt resist this winter project..
i was hoping it was a marinoni based on the fork crown but im not sure..
suntour rear dropouts
700 c wheels
cantilever posts
columbus tubing sticker on fork
2sets water bottle bosses on bottom of frame and main

3alarmer 

.
...I would be shocked if that Columbus sticker on the fork is original equipment.

Mad Honk 

I am not sure about what it is, but I would say that once it has been recoated at a PC shop it will be a great frame to restore to a touring bike. Much there to be liked about this frame. Smiles, MH

P!N20

Not convinced the fork is original.

The serial number looks similar to Miki (Japan).

dpd3672

Maybe I'm an optimist, but Wilier uses a Fleur de lis as a trademark. Not sure what they looked like in different eras. This is a contemporary one.

And some photos of an early 1970s one with some fleur de lis markings.

https://www.speedbicycles.ch/velo/34...tina_1973.html

P!N20

^ Good call.

The Wilier Fleur de Lis looks a bit different to the OP's - although there may have been variants.



https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/i...c8526a9e94.jpg

randyjawa 

To me, that symbol on the fork crown suggests Canadian made Marinoni. If you look closely, you can see the same symbol on a lovely old Marinoni that I owned years ago...


That said, most newer Marinoni bikes that I have owned sported this fork crown symbol...




Usually, however, the frame itself also sported some brand identification such as this seat stay top...




Or this head tube lug M...


All that said and considering that the fork brake seems to match the frame rear brake, the bike might be an early Marinoni but without more evidence, I could well be wrong. If you post the serial number, a fellow forum member just might be able to confirm my guess.

randyjawa 

I just found a better picture of my early Marinoni fork crown symbol. Perhaps it will help...

jdawginsc 

Was that one of your hand painted works Randy? Gorgeous.

randyjawa 

Sorry, the paint work was done (powder coat) long before I got the bike. I got that lovely old (very early I believe) Marinoni if even trade for a forties something Automoto.

obrentharris 

Agreed.
Fork end appears to be Gipiemme. Dropout may be Suntour. Ends of fork blades are scalloped. Ends of stays are rounded.
Brent

seypat

Is that the remnants of a "Made in Japan" sticker on the bottom of the ST?

vegasbike

i think your orange marinoni lead me to think this might be one.. i also wondered about fork being aftermarket.. now im not convinced. the one thing i dont know is if the early marinonis had seat stay engraving. i used to own a touring marinoni with columbus sp.. it was mid 90's.. also had engravings in the usual spots..
what about the suntour dropouts? or the lack of a cutout under the bottom bracket shell? i wondered if serial numbers started with M..also the headtube lugs on this seem a bit ornate like ( centurion like?)
im working on removing stem and will measure seat tube diameter
cheers

3alarmer 

...the frame looks a lot like one of the Japan made production touring bikes of the later 70's and early 80's. I have no idea about the fork, or whether it's original to the frame.

seypat

+1. Centurion, Lotus, SR, etc.

JohnDThompson 

I suspect that the fork itself is not original to the frame. The fork has double eyelets and radiused stay ends, while the frame has single-eyelet rear dropouts with domed stay ends.

reissue59

Nice frame but not a Marinoni

himespau 

With Suntour dropouts, I would definitely have expected Tange.

cudak888 

I'm surprised the fork dropout ends are finished so nicely but the fork crown is a huge cast piece with no filing at all.

I would be inclined to agree with JohnDThompson that the frame and fork aren't a match, but the wear and matching cantilever posts also suggest otherwise. With Japanese bikes or anyone who worked with Tange, I'd always be open to the possibility that the fork was built independent of the frame - hence the discrepancy - and I'd even believe that one manufacturer might request Tange to assemble forks with fork crown cast with their logo in it.

However, I'd also expect a production-level Tange fork to be built with domed-end blades, pre-cut and bent to the right length for mass production - not these that obviously had to be finished and filled.

FYI, Lotus has a lotus flower, not a fleur de lis. You can scratch the Lotus Odyssey as a possibility.

-Kurt

Sluggo

A good summary of the quandary of this bike. I might add the peculiar fact that the Columbus sticker is the only sticker or identifying paint that survived.

I am surprised that nobody has asked about BB threading (might eliminate a few unlikely possibilities) and whether the steerer has rifling (to determine whether the fork is actually Columbus).

seypat

Is that a word/writing on the NDS cable guide?

Edit: Is there a touring bike or Japanese touring bike thread in C & V? If so, the answer could be there.

seypat

Here ya go:

Show your Japanese touring bikes

Erzulis Boat

My French ex-BIL had a frameset made by some local in Chanteloup-en-Brie, and it had that fork crown. It was built from available lugs/crown/tubing etc. Of course it is French threaded and the like.
Not saying the bike is French, but that could have been some generic crown.

T-Mar

I concur, the fork does not match the frame, for the reasons already stated by several members. Also, as noted by P!N20, the serial number is consistent with MIKI of Japan. If so, it indicates a 1983 model. The frame characteristics are certainly typical of a Japanese, mid-range, grand touring model from this period.

Maybe it's the influence of the fleur-de-lys but I sense that this may be a Canadian brand. Canadian bicycles known to be sourced from Miki during this era include Norco, Sakai and Velo Sport. While I can't recall seeing anything that is an exact match, it's similar to their Magnum, LDT and Alpin models of this vintage.

Doug Fattic 

The fluer-de-lis is a French and by extension French Canadian symbol. Of course it could be used by anybody and I used it on the very first frame I built at Ellis Briggs in England. There was a Canadian builder in either Ontario or Quebec Providences that was much more of a small custom maker than Marinoni . I remember seeing an article in Bicycle Guide or Bike World magazines about him in the 80's (maybe later) . Mariinoni has a much bigger production output than the guy I'm trying to think of. He might be a possibility.