Fork cutting time -- is Tange Passage headset good enough to commit to (short stack)?
 

Sooo, I got the wrong crown race size so I have a moment to reflect on what headset to put on this build; I have plenty of steerer tube available right now on this fork and I just want a classic look, what do you folks think?


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...26ab8fa8b0.jpg

Pretty much any new headset is better than one that needs replacing.

If the Passage turns out to not be good enough for you you can always look for better later.

If the race is too small it may also be possible to stick it in a lathe and take a light cut.

Tange Passage.
Short stack and different size races can be bought separately.

I think if you have plenty of seat tube, use spacers rather than a saw. You cannot add back steerer tube if you change headsets. JUst my opinion, mind you.

That's always been my thought. If you ride it for a while and decide it's 100% perfect and you'll never want to change it and you'll always have access to a stock of the short stack headset that you want to put on, sure, cut it at the point, but I'd hold off and just throw a spacer on for now unless you NEED to get your bars that 2-3 mm lower.

Ability to use a wider variety of headsets, & bars incrementally higher = good. Steerer too short = bad.

I've always liked the Tange Levin headsets and the CDS model is my go-to for short stack applications. My advice would be to avoid using a short-stack head set if you can avoid it. There are many more options for regular height H-sets so why restrict yourself. Proper sized crown races can be easily found or your fork can be machined to fit what you have. A fork race cutter can make it smaller and a knurling tool can make it bigger.

hard to increase a 26.4 to 27.0 but add a 5mm spacer at least. Make it enough to use a Levin which has a stack height in the Campagnolo range.

Nope. Relatively easy to do with a Stein knurling tool . Jim Stein makes some marvelous tools.

the Passage is a cheaper (and shorter stack height) model than the go-to Levin or CDS, and there's a reason: races are not as well-finished or hardened as the others, so will wear quicker.
But I am a big fan of Tange HS in general and think they have one of the best bang-for-buck ratios in the business.
The Passage has saved my bacon more than once cause it's easily found and has one of the shortest stack heights available.
But if you have plenty of steerer then you don't need the Passage, spend a few more $$ on a higher-end Tange, use spacers and the proper crown race: you'll be on the road and happy.

Do you know if this interchangeability is a universal assumption if the same model headset is available with either crown race size, like the Tange Falcon?

in my limited experience there are differences between different MODELS of Tange HS races, so even if the "ball contour radius" is the same (not sure what the technical term is but that's how I compare races), they will vary in thickness as well as the grooves machined for the thin plastic seals that some use.

It's been fairly easy to find the crown races (26.4 or 27.0) sold separately for the Levin, but not so easy to source those, or any other races, for other models, IMO, but YMMV.

So it hasn't been an easy "mix-n-match" proposition with pieces from various models interchanging, which has been a frustration, but reality, for me..

+1 The only reason to cut the steerer is for an entirely new setup/bike or because you absolutely have to get the bars lower. (Race fit in the days before all the stem choices and you did not know/could not afford a framebuilder to make you a <-17 degree custom stem.)

My custom fix gear (my avatar photo) came with a moderately low stack King Gripnut. That headset drove me nuts and I rebuilt it with a collection of Tange parts to get the good races and low enough stack. Worked but every 8000 miles I had to collect the various parts to re-do it. Finally had the builder shave some off the head tube. (Thankfully, he left enough there when he built the frame to make that possible.) Now a standard Levin drops in. Bliss!

The aside - I absolutely love that Tange makes all its headsets interchangeable. Diameters, lockwashers and locknuts. With enough old ones on hand, you can come up with parts to fit almost anything. You don't have to take out loans to buy them. Even the cheapest headsets, the no-name OEM ones bike shops use to keep beaters going install just fine and feel smooth. Look decent. Last a good long time (except they do not have seals. You have to keep grit out - inner tube seal or gobs of marine grease. But for $8 pre-COVID, who's complaining. And they can be used to shrink stack on all the other models.)

Edit: Just read the above post. Never thought about it but in general, I don't mix and match cups and cones so I haven't run into seal issues. But if it were necessary, I'd just do it and pack with tons of marine grease; enough to ooze out and require a post first ride wipe.

Not even that with an old-school threaded headset and a quill-type stem. Only those new-fangled threadless headsets and stems rely on the steer tube to set handlebar height. If you need to get the bars lower than your current stem allows, use a quill track stem rather than a road stem.

And if you're too cheap to buy the tool for a one-off job, you can use a hammer and punch to accomplish the same thing.

I forgot about track stems (and I think I even have one). I've got two custom stems that are -22 and -27. Since I push the length so far, I'm not sure stock track stems would do it for me, even accounting for the 2:1 ratio stem length to washer height that works so well for me. (I figured out years ago that moving handlebars along that ratio doesn't change my shoulder location and back lean at all. Just takes me from hands out there and aero to hands low, back and powerful for aggressive sprinting and climbing short walls. I prefer the hands pretty well out there though its fun having most of my bikes varying.

Back before I started riding very long custom stems, mine all had dents in the throat. At one point I didn't own a stem that didn't. (Being a long, skinny climber, I really wasn't worried that my massive (huh!) strength was going to tear those 1As and TTTs apart and they didn't leave me and go to others.)

Both crown races (ISO and JIS) are also available separately for the Tange Levin CDS. And while it's not as short (stack-wise) as the Passage, it's also fairly short as I recall - about 34mm? for the CDS vice less than 31mm for the Passage, if I recall correctly.

The other thing to watch is the headtube cup/race size. I believe newer Tange Passages use the ISO headtube spec vice JIS. At least the last JIS Tange Passage I bought did - and that's why I bought it (I needed an ISO fixed upper race for a Passage and that turned out to be the cheapest way to get both the fixed upper race and the extra JIS crown race I also wanted).

Others have already said it, but to confirm: unless you're 102% committed to the idea of a slammed stem, just put in spacers between the upper race and the top threaded lockring. Future you or future buyers will appreciate it.

Bringing this back from the dead as it's the newest "short stack" post I could find.

I think I know the answer but I wanted to check with the more knowledgeable folks here.

I didn't think to check steerer length when I grabbed that Paramount frameset the other day. Used my calipers yesterday to measure. I've got a steerer length of 168mm and a head tube of 136mm. Dang it! That's only 32mm. So that appears to only give me the Tange Passage as a reasonably found option, correct?

The specs on a Chris King are 33mm, could that be run safely? I did email them and they confirmed my measurement and did of course say they are probably the closest I'd find. They did not specifically say it's be safe to use theirs.

It's a shame as I have several used and new Campaganolo headsets, a NOS Superbe, etc. None of them come close on stack though.

I'll run the Passage in a heart beat but figured I'd check to see if I've missed other options in my two days of googling.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...30762b7beb.jpg

The seller said it had a stronglight on it but that it was in "bad shape". I'm not seeing the Strongligh Delta or A9 specs as fitting.

Anyway just asking all the smart folks here to make sure my thinking is sound. Thanks!

I cannot tell you how many times I would have gladly strangled a previous owner for cutting a steerer for a POS headset and a quality one wouldn't fit

Just saying

IIRC the Tange Passage is actually a bit shorter than 31mm stack, perhaps in the 28 to 30mm range but that might be just my (good) luck or running without any lock washer...but some of the cheepo sealed bearing HS ( which use thin sealed cartridge bearings on T&B) you find from Chinese sellers might have comparable short-ish stack heights, but often they do not publish details like that in the ads, plus aren't too clear about which are for threadless, threaded or the steerer diameters. I think the thin bearings used permit final stack heights to be lower than the "balls in cage" styles.
So read extra carefully and "buyer beware".
But they often are quite cheap (like $20 or under) and a few have surprised me with better than expected quality, additionally most use a split (Alu alloy) crown race since the part doesn't make contact with balls, and therefore will fit both 26.4 & 27.0 fork crown races

I recall the campy gran sport hs has a stack lower than others. I’ve also have had Miche on the low height.

Info from the old Tange website (no longer available) shows the Passage with a 30.5mm stack. Resellers are now showing it a little under that, 30.2 - 30.3mm.

I think the innicycle headset (converts it to threadless though, which you might not like) might be an option. Don't quote me on that, but it might be worth checking out.

https://www.innicycle.com/

Not cheap, but would probably give you the most versatility.

This might help re: Tange-Seiki threaded headsets.

https://tangeseiki.jp/threaded/

Found that just now. Seems to have much (but not all) of the info from the previous site.