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A 30 year old Doug Fattic frame/bicycle came back home

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A 30 year old Doug Fattic frame/bicycle came back home

Old 10-23-22, 09:46 AM
  #1  
Doug Fattic 
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A 30 year old Doug Fattic frame/bicycle came back home

About 30 years ago I made a frame/bicycle for the daughter of one of my friends. It was to help her be successfully taking a cycling class in school. She was tall with long legs and a short upper body and didn't fit well on any kind of production frame. We built it out of .7/.4/.7 thin wall main tubes. Those that have never ridden thin walled tubing are missing out. It isn't the weight but rather the feel those tubes can provide. The c-c seat tube length is 59cm and the top tube 53cm. The seat tube angle is 73º and the head tube angle 71º (to get the front wheel far enough out to miss hitting her foot). The bottom bracket height is a low 265mm since she wouldn't be pedaling through corners at speed like in a criterium.

Anyway my friend gave it back to me to do with whatever I wanted. It has silver 175 Came Chorus cranks. I replaced the 53 big ring with a more moderate 48. She wasn't going to be going on fast group training rides. The derailleurs are 6 sp indexed Shimano Dura Ace. The handlebars and stem (9cm) are Specialized then made by Nitto. They made the extensions that go into the steerer longer than normal. The Brakes are Royal Gran Compe. I doubt the bike has been ridden 200 miles in its entire life. Her riding adventures ended when the class ended. My friend's dream of riding with his daughter never materialized.

The lugs are Henry James investment cast. The down tube lug has an H cut out. The dropouts are stainless steel Henry James horizontals. The fork is an aluminum Kenesis. Here are some pictures. It is fun to see something in pristine condition made a long time ago. I'm curious what I'll do with it and if it can find a new home.

I painted it a purple pearl color

We chose a fastback style of seat stay attachment

The lugs were shaped and thinned and an H was cut out of the down tube lug
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Old 10-23-22, 10:08 AM
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double sweet !
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Old 10-23-22, 10:22 AM
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Amazing color.
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Old 10-23-22, 11:06 AM
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A lot to like here. Nice work!
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Old 10-23-22, 11:16 AM
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What's the H stand for? Her initial?

Incredible color, and goes without saying, a beautifully crafted frame Doug.
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Old 10-23-22, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
About 30 years ago I made a frame/bicycle for the daughter of one of my friends. It was to help her be successfully taking a cycling class in school. She was tall with long legs and a short upper body and didn't fit well on any kind of production frame. We built it out of .7/.4/.7 thin wall main tubes. Those that have never ridden thin walled tubing are missing out. It isn't the weight but rather the feel those tubes can provide. The c-c seat tube length is 59cm and the top tube 53cm. The seat tube angle is 73º and the head tube angle 71º (to get the front wheel far enough out to miss hitting her foot). The bottom bracket height is a low 265mm since she wouldn't be pedaling through corners at speed like in a criterium.

Anyway my friend gave it back to me to do with whatever I wanted. It has silver 175 Came Chorus cranks. I replaced the 53 big ring with a more moderate 48. She wasn't going to be going on fast group training rides. The derailleurs are 6 sp indexed Shimano Dura Ace. The handlebars and stem (9cm) are Specialized then made by Nitto. They made the extensions that go into the steerer longer than normal. The Brakes are Royal Gran Compe. I doubt the bike has been ridden 200 miles in its entire life. Her riding adventures ended when the class ended. My friend's dream of riding with his daughter never materialized.

The lugs are Henry James investment cast. The down tube lug has an H cut out. The dropouts are stainless steel Henry James horizontals. The fork is an aluminum Kenesis. Here are some pictures. It is fun to see something in pristine condition made a long time ago. I'm curious what I'll do with it and if it can find a new home.

I painted it a purple pearl color

We chose a fastback style of seat stay attachment

The lugs were shaped and thinned and an H was cut out of the down tube lug
Beautiful bike and craftsmanship! Re: the thin tube steel, couldn't agree more - all my vintage steel bikes are either Reynolds 753 or Tange Prestige, gotta ride it to believe it.
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Old 10-23-22, 03:21 PM
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Doug,
Great to see one come home to the builder. It still looks like a new bike even after all of those years. I plan on sending a repair to Skip for you to oversee. It should be a fun one for him. Smiles, Dave
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Old 10-23-22, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
What's the H stand for? Her initial?

Incredible color, and goes without saying, a beautifully crafted frame Doug.
Yes, it is her initial. I've used House of Kolor paint since the 80's. Before that I used Dupont Imron paint exclusively. It has a lot of glamour paint choices. This paint was designed by a custom car painter to get the candies and pearl and chameleons that makes paint pop. There are a couple of very minor blemishes in the paint I have the original paint to be able to touch them up.
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Old 10-23-22, 05:17 PM
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Drop dead gorgeous.

Also, absolutely spot-on move leaving the peak of the seatlug extension unthinned. Always thought that particular point needs as much meat as possible - just in case.

Can you get any straight-on photos of it? I'm getting the feeling that the strikingly unconventional 59cm / 53cm combination can't be fully appreciated with the lens distortion of the first pic.

-Kurt
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Old 10-23-22, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
Yes, it is her initial. I've used House of Kolor paint since the 80's. Before that I used Dupont Imron paint exclusively. It has a lot of glamour paint choices. This paint was designed by a custom car painter to get the candies and pearl and chameleons that makes paint pop. There are a couple of very minor blemishes in the paint I have the original paint to be able to touch them up.
Your lug-work and paint-work is exquisite. Who knows, maybe I will find a Fattic floating around in my size and pounce on it!
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Old 10-23-22, 05:45 PM
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It's a beauty.
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Old 10-24-22, 03:15 AM
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Wow!
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Old 10-24-22, 03:42 AM
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I can relate to the sizing issue with folks in her situation. I have long legs with a short torso. I ride racing bikes not because I am a racer but because a tall bike with a shorter top tube just feels better, especially on long rides. I typically ride a 63cm bike but have a couple that are 60 with the seat post taking up the distance to the crank to get the optimum riding position. I prefer the taller bikes because the handle bar position feels better and as I get older , I find the shorter stem length is better as well.
That is a beautiful bike and it is sad she didn’t ride it more. I guess cycling isn’t for everyone , even if they have the perfect bike.
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Old 10-25-22, 06:42 AM
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This frame represents my philosophy to build frames to fit the bicycle position of the rider. I start by doing a fitting on an adjustable fit bike and then match the design to the rider's contact points. I do the design on a fixture I have laser cut and etched in Ukraine for that purpose. The most common way in the framebuilding world is to design a frame for a purpose then adjust the rider to fit the bicycle. This works well when that purpose is maximum performance but not so much if comfort and ease of use is part of the equation. This also means that finding a Doug Fattic frame or bike in your size may not fit you well because it was designed for someone else.

I've made quite a few frames because I've been building them since 1975. However I never made very many each year for several reasons. First I took a long time to make each one. Doing each one individually (instead of in batches) and filing each joint to the level I liked was time consuming. Also I couldn't afford to make many. I think in the era of this frame I had a base price of $750. By the time all the extras of bits and paint were added, the price got over $1,000 but the ratio of time spent to dollars earned was not in my favor. I got most of my profits from painting. I've always taught framebuilding classes. That is an extension of my training as a high school teacher. But I've done that almost exclusively since 2006.
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Old 10-25-22, 06:49 AM
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The paint is pretty stunning.
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Old 10-25-22, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
The paint is pretty stunning.
+1.
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Old 10-25-22, 07:07 AM
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How much time are we talking about from start of building the frame to ready to put the components on? I don't have any idea with that level of craftsmanship. Also, does the BB shell have anything fancy done to it? Beautiful frame.
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Old 10-25-22, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
How much time are we talking about from start of building the frame to ready to put the components on? I don't have any idea with that level of craftsmanship. Also, does the BB shell have anything fancy done to it? Beautiful frame.
It is possible to make a decent frame in a day if the builder doesn't fuss and uses a standard design. This was an average time the classic era European builders took to make one frame. When I visited Harry Quinn in Liverpool when I was apprenticing I asked him how long it took him to make a frame and he said he was working on the 2nd one that day. Good American builders typically take 16 to 20 hours not including paint - which they usually farm out. The ones that do the very nicest job take around 100 hours. Last year I asked those that made the nicest frames at the Philly show and that was their answer. This extra work often goes unappreciated. The most common questions asked a builder is 1. How soon can I get it? and 2. How much does it cost? If any decision based on one or both of those answers are not going to get one of the finest frames made.
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Old 10-25-22, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
The most common questions asked a builder is 1. How soon can I get it? and 2. How much does it cost? If any decision based on one or both of those answers are not going to get one of the finest frames made.
Good
Fast
Cheap

Pick either two.
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Old 10-25-22, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Good
Fast
Cheap

Pick either two.
Yup!

People wince at $2000 framesets but even if we half Doug’s 100 hour time to completion that = $40/hr. Kind of a bargain for the craftsmanship IMO.
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Old 10-25-22, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RustyJames View Post
Yup!

People wince at $2000 framesets but even if we half Doug’s 100 hour time to completion that = $40/hr. Kind of a bargain for the craftsmanship IMO.
One thing I didn't put in there- because the frame is made by Doug with his name on it- the "good" is already taken up in that formula.
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Old 10-25-22, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
It is possible to make a decent frame in a day if the builder doesn't fuss and uses a standard design. This was an average time the classic era European builders took to make one frame. When I visited Harry Quinn in Liverpool when I was apprenticing I asked him how long it took him to make a frame and he said he was working on the 2nd one that day. Good American builders typically take 16 to 20 hours not including paint - which they usually farm out. The ones that do the very nicest job take around 100 hours. Last year I asked those that made the nicest frames at the Philly show and that was their answer. This extra work often goes unappreciated. The most common questions asked a builder is 1. How soon can I get it? and 2. How much does it cost? If any decision based on one or both of those answers are not going to get one of the finest frames made.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 10-25-22, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
This extra work often goes unappreciated. The most common questions asked a builder is 1. How soon can I get it? and 2. How much does it cost? If any decision based on one or both of those answers are not going to get one of the finest frames made.
Anyone remotely basing any decision on those 2 questions should be summarily dismissed out of hand.

Sadly they have to be taken on as customers anyway.

Richard Schwinn said "there is nothing glamorous about framebuilding" when I asked him whom he thought might have built my 58 Paramount.

The average customer (cretin) does not know how truly ignorant they are and doesn't realize the cost of a builders experience that can negate that is a bargain.

Dirty, nasty, soul crushing work, blacksmithing meets jewelry making with a herculean amount of patience, finesse and skill in between.
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Old 10-25-22, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Anyone remotely basing any decision on those 2 questions should be summarily dismissed out of hand.

Sadly they have to be taken on as customers anyway.

Richard Schwinn said "there is nothing glamorous about framebuilding" when I asked him whom he thought might have built my 58 Paramount.

The average customer (cretin) does not know how truly ignorant they are and doesn't realize the cost of a builders experience that can negate that is a bargain.

Dirty, nasty, soul crushing work, blacksmithing meets jewelry making with a herculean amount of patience, finesse and skill in between.
That's the way it is with most everything that requires skill and craftsmanship. Average Joe and Jill don't understand.

"What, you want how much to match and replace those custom porch railings on my stoop? That's outragous! All you gotta do is get some wood and do some minor carpentry work, maybe some concrete work also."
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Old 10-25-22, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
That's the way it is with most everything that requires skill and craftsmanship. Average Joe and Jill don't understand.

"What, you want how much to match and replace those custom porch railings on my stoop? That's outragous! All you gotta do is get some wood and do some minor carpentry work, maybe some concrete work also."
Agreed but I truly believe frame builders have a very special, way more whacked out version of it, builder, fitter, financial consultant, psychologist, marriage counselor, blacksmith, painter, jeweler, etc, etc, ad nauseum, on and on.

When I had the Strawberry built, it was quite a bit more than the base price when it was done. When Dave saw my eyes get big he said "I put about 25 extra hours in on it and charged you for 10."

I said "Tx Dave" and moved along, it was worth every penny and a PITA to be sure with what I wanted.

I couldn't have been happier with how it turned out, these guys are wizards.
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