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Bizarre headset setup

Old 11-08-22, 07:59 AM
  #1  
JulesCW 
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Bizarre headset setup

This is on a "redone" Bob Jackson for sale on FB marketplace. Looks like the seller put the upper head tube race where the crown race should go. I've never seen that. I cannot imagine it will work well -- and I'm wondering what he did at the top end (there is a whole bike photo, but the resolution is not good enough to really see what's going on at the other end of the steerer tube)... Do you think this was intentional or just a mistake? If intentional, what would the goal be? Thoughts?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9384958557853/


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Old 11-08-22, 08:04 AM
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That is "redone"
an awkward workaround to a damaged crown race.
" Let's modify the geometry while we are at it"
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Old 11-08-22, 08:04 AM
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Could be a mistake. Maybe the seller thinks because the part is chrome it should be exposed. Look at the setup of the FD. Look at the huge gap between the cage and the big ring.

Edit: After looking at the pictures again and reading the ad, I think it is to cover a mistake. There's no attention to detail in those pics. Looks like a flipper bike. Look at the shifter cable running into the DT cable mount. All Campy except for the 600 Arabesque derailleurs? (Because they kinda look like a match for the crank but are cheaper than the original derailleurs that were harvested.) Same for the brakes.

Last edited by seypat; 11-08-22 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 11-08-22, 08:33 AM
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It reminds me of this ad on my local CL. A lot of the good parts were harvested and replaced with lower level stuff and that hideous flat bar setup. Nothing wrong with the 105 brakes, but it's definitely a parts bin build. I'm going to contact the seller. The frame was made by a local builder that has a bike repair shop. I'll see what I can get it for without the RD/stem/handlebars/shifters/brake levers/etc,etc.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...540171279.html

Last edited by seypat; 11-08-22 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 11-08-22, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
It reminds me of this ad on my local CL. A lot of the good parts were harvested and replaced with lower level stuff and that hideous flat bar setup. Nothing wrong with the 105 brakes, but it's definitely a parts pin build. I'm going to contact the seller. The frame was made by a local builder that has a bike repair shop. I'll see what I can get it for without the RD/stem/handlebars/shifters/brake levers/etc,etc.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...540171279.html

Bikes like that do seem to be calling out for a rescue.
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Old 11-08-22, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JulesCW View Post
Bikes like that do seem to be calling out for a rescue.
Make it so!
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Old 11-08-22, 09:50 AM
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Looks like it's done to gain clearance for the caliper brake. The mounting hole looks super close to where the headset should go. Maybe it was canti brakes to begin with, and somebody removed the canti brakes and tried to put caliper brakes on there. Or maybe the original fork was damaged and they grabbed a track fork and put it on there.
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Old 11-08-22, 11:00 AM
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Whatever the intent, it's just wrong.
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Old 11-08-22, 12:01 PM
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that campy shift cable end/stop bit.

Where is that?
What is that?
Does it have a name?
part number?
I did not know that is a thing.

Robert
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Old 11-08-22, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
that campy shift cable end/stop bit.

Where is that?
What is that?
Does it have a name?
part number?
I did not know that is a thing.

Robert
As you can see, that's the DT cable stop for bar end shifters, the original Campy's were/are abysmal at best.

I have a set that I managed to get cleaned up and made a plastic friction washer for that will hopefully help hold them in place without being too hard to shift as well.

Last edited by merziac; 11-08-22 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-08-22, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
As you can see, that's the DT cable stop for bar end shifters, the original Campy's were/are abysmal at best.

I have a set that I managed to get cleaned up and made a plastic washer for that will hopefully help hold them in place without being too hard to shift as well.
I've seen a shimano version, just never a campy version. This part would look much better on our vintage stuff I think.

I've never seen it in the old reprints
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Old 11-08-22, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
I've seen a shimano version, just never a campy version. This part would look much better on our vintage stuff I think.

I've never seen it in the old reprints
The Crampy bar cons were very poor performing so not popular, many were likely cast aside and the cable stops lost to the sands, they are very scarce on the ground.
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Old 11-08-22, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
that campy shift cable end/stop bit.

Where is that?
What is that?
Does it have a name?
part number?
I did not know that is a thing.

Robert
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...=103&AbsPos=41
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Old 11-08-22, 01:41 PM
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That would add almost an inch to the stack height.

It must be a replacement fork that is too large,... or something like that.

Some people should not work on bikes.
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Old 11-08-22, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
that campy shift cable end/stop bit.

Where is that?
What is that?
Does it have a name?
part number?
I did not know that is a thing.

Robert
Find one from Huret or the other companies like this. They will accept the Shimano style cable adjusters.

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Old 11-08-22, 02:08 PM
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just plain bizarre!
I'm impressed with the "2-layer powder coat" if as described, that looks more like wet paint than most PC jobs!
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Old 11-08-22, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Find one from Huret or the other companies like this. They will accept the Shimano style cable adjusters.

That looks like clamp on shifter mounts. I have buckets of those. I was impressed with the downtube cable stops. There must have been only a year of the cable stops made until most frames came with braze-on shifter mounts with the option of adding a cable stop that screws over them.
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Old 11-08-22, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
That looks like clamp on shifter mounts. I have buckets of those. I was impressed with the downtube cable stops. There must have been only a year of the cable stops made until most frames came with braze-on shifter mounts with the option of adding a cable stop that screws over them.
It can also be used as a cable stop.......with a cable adjuster. Much better than the other version. Win win.

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Old 11-08-22, 04:38 PM
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Im going to guess the odd headset configuration was done to make more clearance for the fender mount.

I have run into the issue previously where the fender mounting washer hits the headset and interferes with easy and smooth rotation. The easy solution to that is to just add a spacer to the brake bolt on the front. Shuffling the headset for that reason would be baffling...........
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Old 11-08-22, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Looks like it's done to gain clearance for the caliper brake. The mounting hole looks super close to where the headset should go. Maybe it was canti brakes to begin with, and somebody removed the canti brakes and tried to put caliper brakes on there. Or maybe the original fork was damaged and they grabbed a track fork and put it on there.
Campagnolo Record brakes had a substantial bevel on the rear of the brake bolt flange that held the spring. This provided clearance for the lower headset stack, The bevel on 1st generation Dura-Ace and some other boom era brakes wasn't as pronounced. Often, we'd have to grind a bit off the top of the brake bolt flange to clear the lower stack. We did this a fair bit on high grade frames intended for Record brakes but whose owners didn't want to pay the exorbitant Record brakeset premium.

Having said that, the solution on the subject bicycle appears excessive. In addition to a lot of extra stack height, the caliper also appears to be spaced out from the leading edge of the crown.
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Old 11-08-22, 07:33 PM
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I'm pained by the thought of the lower raceway currently shimmying about the upper headlug.

Someone please gently reach out to him and point out that there may be chipped powdercoat and tears in the future if he doesn't get this fixed. Surely someone here can share the advice in a caring and diplomatic manner.

-Kurt
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Old 11-08-22, 08:16 PM
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Is that the bottom bearing race powdercoated over that the brake bolt is going through? Or is there no bottom race at all? Is the bottom part of the headset just grinding away on the brake mounting bolt?

Last edited by seypat; 11-08-22 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 11-08-22, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Is that the bottom bearing race powdercoated over that the brake bolt is going through? Or is there no bottom race at all? Is the bottom part of the headset just grinding away on the brake mounting bolt?
It's recessed mount. The lower race is not resting on anything that would show if assembled properly.

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Old 11-08-22, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
It can also be used as a cable stop.......with a cable adjuster. Much better than the other version. Win win.
I have a couple of these Huret bands and mine have m5x1.0 threads for the shifter bolts, so modern cable adjusters arenít quite a drop in fit.
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Old 11-09-22, 10:19 AM
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I had to pull a headset out of a box to figure out how the owner assembled it.
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