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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

Old 11-10-22, 11:08 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I have feelings about fenders, period.
In that case, you better check out some of the lube threads. Might come in handy.
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Old 11-10-22, 11:16 AM
  #52  
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I'm guessing hammered fenders are standard equipment on bikes used for pub rides. Correct?
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Old 11-10-22, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
It's freezing up here already. I wish I could imagine ordering a mojito at the bar.
but would that exclude beer, just because it is chilly? (from a guy who grew up in montana, where rules of the manhood required that you drink your illegal OLY bare handed at 20 below at alcohol hill)
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Old 11-10-22, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine
This reminds me of those seatposts I "polish" for a lower-level flip. I gotta get those huge gouges out of it that have come with decades of abuse, but am I going to get it to a perfect mirror finish? Yeah, no. That's, uh, "good enough."
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Old 11-10-22, 12:03 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by BFisher
@Robvolz, no real harm done, imo. I cracked a beer to your mojito. Cheers.

I just bristle a little bit at the romanticizing of a lot of this stuff. Metal work is hard, dirty, and dangerous. I did it for years - sheet metal fab, wire fab, high-volume welding. I appreciate high skill as much as anybody, but I understand exactly why when a machine is chosen over hand forming. And the complaint threads would cue like clockwork if people had to pay for that when they wanted some fenders.
I was a production welder for most of my working life. I appreciate your sentiment.
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Old 11-10-22, 12:11 PM
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Reference:

Objects of Desire by Adrian Forty.
Design & Society from Wedgwood to IBM
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Old 11-10-22, 12:18 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I was a production welder for most of my working life. I appreciate your sentiment.
There's still a small part of me that misses that. I don't miss the headaches from eight hours of stainless, though.

My truck might need some floor pans, so I might get to do it again this winter.
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Old 11-10-22, 12:25 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by gugie
Also, a scratch on a plain fender is easy to see, not so much on a hammered fender.
I like fenders- I've been rolling on a plastic set of SKS fenders- but I wanted aluminum. I don't particularly like the "hammered" effect so I went with the fluted fenders- and yup- scratches show up and your eye goes RIGHT to those scratches. Next set of fenders will be hammered.
Originally Posted by Robvolz

I wrote this post while waiting for word from the DR on my dog. I might have been in a bit of a mood. She will be fine they said.
I'm glad your dog is doing well. We lost a 20 year old sweet stripey cat friend this past weekend.

Originally Posted by Robvolz

I own that toaster. I think toasters are fascinating.
Years ago, I read this article about toasters from the first half of the 20th century- I wish I could remember more about what it was about- except the race for the perfect piece of toast. As much as we take it for granted, toast was a big deal, and the electrical gizmos to make toast were expensive and status worthy. So you see those beautiful toasters, with the gleaming chrome and the fancy actions-
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Old 11-10-22, 12:30 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by BFisher
There's still a small part of me that misses that. I don't miss the headaches from eight hours of stainless, though.

My truck might need some floor pans, so I might get to do it again this winter.
I never looked back. I hated welding but by all accounts was pretty good at it.
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Old 11-10-22, 01:43 PM
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Good to here that Greta should be ok.
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Old 11-10-22, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
I humbly apologize for ruffling any feathers.

No need to bring up the C&V Sales debacle. I posted in the main forum section, then it was moved to sales. The ferocity of comments was surprising. The rules were explained to me and I haven't posted anything from the non-profit place I volunteer at since.

I don't care what people do with their bikes, their cars, or in the privacy of their homes.

I don't judge others for what they do or don't do.

I personally studied Industrial Design (non-credited courses, on-line) through RISD during covid where I learned much about history, trends and technology. The "Hammered" look was brought up more than once as a thing which used to be hand-crafted, but can now be replicated with machines. I'm not a luddite, but the HH represented something.

Regardless, I was bored in the vet hospital's waiting room and started a thread perhaps I shouldn't have.
Every day is Judgement Day at BF...
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Old 11-10-22, 02:18 PM
  #62  
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Hand hammered -

The original way to create shapes.

Taking out the indentations was nearly impossible (expensive, slow,...).

Hand hammering hardens the material (cold working). This stiffens and strengthens the material.

Has an aesthetic all its own - distinctive but "old timey" (IMO).

Was replaced by mass-produced deep drawn shapes.

Deep drawing has a very different aesthetic (smooth, highlights any bending).

HERE'S THE RUB - smooth surfaces show every single scratch, dimple and dent and once bent is difficult to bend back without showing the damage. By contrast, hand hammered surfaces are nothing but "damage".
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Old 11-10-22, 02:19 PM
  #63  
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okay, we've discussed hammered fenders, but what about other hammered stuff?

I'm just thinking about hammered rivets on Brooks saddles. I've got older Brooks Professionals with medium sized copper rivets that don't have any hammer marks, but also a newer Pro with large, hammered rivets. I've also got a B.17 and a Swift with larger hammered rivets.



Legend says that the first Pro's with hammered rivets were Pro's where the rivets were removed, the leather was subjected to some special treatment to soften it up, and then re-riveted to the saddle frame. To make it look nice, larger rivets were needed to cover the area around the holes (no idea why), and the hammering was needed either to get that large rivet flush with the leather or shaped to match the leather's contours or some other reason.

Of course, that large hammered rivet became an indicator of some sort of prestige or extra value, so it became popular. As such, we find production Brooks models with large hammered rivets to this day. Is it wrong that I think they still look pretty cool?? ... maybe?...

On a somewhat similar theme... how do you feel about corrugated aircraft skins? Functional, or just for looks?

Ford Tri-motor:



Junkers Ju52:

The Junkers was being used as part of a marketing campaign for some high-end luggage that used corrugated metal on the exterior because... no idea why, but apparently it was novel and interesting. ... sorta like curly stays on a Hetchins?...

Steve in Peoria
(no hammered fenders yet),

Last edited by steelbikeguy; 11-10-22 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 11-10-22, 02:24 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Notice the smiling faces. Alright, @rccardr looks a bit grumpy.

Neither the fenders nor the rain/cold made me grumpy. Actually enjoyed the multiple lessons in Rain Fu.
It was...that other thing.
Yeah Doc, not being able to trust that your bike would point in the way you wanted it to must have been both scary and exhausting. I'm glad you found the root cause and fixed it, Your Davidson is too nice to not ride.
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Old 11-10-22, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
On a somewhat similar theme... how do you feel about corrugated aircraft skins? Functional, or just for looks?
It's practically impossible at this point not to bring up the CitroŽn H-series van.




-Kurt
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Old 11-10-22, 02:47 PM
  #66  
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^ You could certainly fit a lot of bikes with hammered fenders in that rig!
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Old 11-10-22, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M
I have a bike boom Takara I would like to put fenders on, but fenders seem to cost more than a Takara is worth.
Some of the bike boom brands that have little value are actually every bit as nice as their better known contemporaries. I realize Takara was best known for gas pipe entry level bikes but they did market some very nice mid level models as well. I'm always keeping an eye open for one of their top of the line road models to go with my '86 Highlander MTB. As far as collector value mine has zero value but with a Tange Cro-Moly frame and fork and full Suntour XC Sport components it's a damn nice bike just the same and one of my favorites. I don't know which Takara you have but if you like it and want fenders on it go for it.

One more gratuitous picture of my beloved Highlander......... Once upon a time I had actually considered putting a set of hammered aluminum fenders on it but they'd interfere with the rear roller cam brake.

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Old 11-10-22, 03:04 PM
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As a misguided youth I would get hammered on occasion, it never left me feeling very good the next day......
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Old 11-10-22, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
^ You could certainly fit a lot of bikes with hammered fenders in that rig!
Oooh. We need the long-wheelbase variant.




-Kurt
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Old 11-10-22, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
It's practically impossible at this point not to bring up the CitroŽn H-series van.




-Kurt
how did the French end up producing something that homely?
I don't expect French stuff to work all that well, but I do expect it to look good.
Sometimes they look good and work well, like the Stronglight roller bearing headsets that I'm very fond of.

... or maybe it was intentionally homely, as a way to shame the riders who ended up in the broom wagon?

Steve in Peoria
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Old 11-10-22, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
how did the French end up producing something that homely?
I don't expect French stuff to work all that well, but I do expect it to look good.
Sometimes they look good and work well, like the Stronglight roller bearing headsets that I'm very fond of.

... or maybe it was intentionally homely, as a way to shame the riders who ended up in the broom wagon?
Functional and cheap to manufacture.

Like a death stem.

-Kurt.
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Old 11-10-22, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
In college I used a temp work agency. They would send me on the oddest jobs, often for a week only.

It opened up my eyes to how things are made and what it cost. I tried my hand at a machine shop that used an English wheel. I have sooooo much respect for people who have mastered that craft. For someone to take a flat sheet of metal and create a complex curve still gladdens my heart.

For fun, I would hang in Russ Meek's shop in Milwaukee OR. He builds racing cars to beat records in Bonneville. He also recreated a custom fender for my Vespa sidecar. No job to big or small.

I'm also friends with many local frame builders and someday I might have one built for me.

You are correct, I have no idea how they can feed their family. Some of these guys put 100's of hours into their craft. But I respect the hell outta them.

I wrote this post while waiting for word from the DR on my dog. I might have been in a bit of a mood. She will be fine they said.

I think I'll head to the bar down the block and have a MOJITO. I've earned it.

Rant over.



Dealing with pet stuff? Rough. You definitely need a drink. I am glad she's gonna be ok. I will say that if your bar serves mojitos in Moscow mule mugs then I think you should find a different bar.
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Old 11-10-22, 04:13 PM
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Wacky, the trends in this thread. Too new to it to not be somewhat astonished. Yet, may as well add a pic of fenders...woody style


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Old 11-10-22, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Functional and cheap to manufacture.

Like a death stem.

-Kurt.
I'm in favor of functional and cheap, but even the AVA stem that I used to own had some style. Incredibly flexy, but a bit of style. Scary flexy, to be honest.



The Citroen van looks more like something that VW would have come up with, not unlike The Thing (properly known as the Type 181, apparently).
Hard to believe that the Type 181 came from the same place as the neat little Porsche sports cars.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 11-10-22, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I'm in favor of functional and cheap, but even the AVA stem that I used to own had some style. Incredibly flexy, but a bit of style. Scary flexy, to be honest.

The Citroen van looks more like something that VW would have come up with, not unlike The Thing (properly known as the Type 181, apparently).
Hard to believe that the Type 181 came from the same place as the neat little Porsche sports cars.

Steve in Peoria
Ok, FIFY:

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