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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

Old 11-09-22, 02:46 PM
  #1  
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I have feelings about the "Hand-Hammered" look in fenders and other things

I see all these expensive fenders rocking the hammered look.

Back in the 30s, during the industrial age, companies would put a machine stamped shell over an item and announce that its better than the previous model. Picture the sunbeam toaster as seen in every pop tart and Eggo Waffles ad, the sunbeam T-9, who's logo on the side represents a sail, the 1939 NY world's fair logo, "Sailing into the FUTURE"





The previous toasters were just as effective and toasting bread. But the marketing departments had a heyday convincing everyone that streamline and machine made was better.

The craftspeople said," this is Bull schitt". and as a way to differentiate themselves and their product was to hand-hammer so you knew the product, whether it be a bowl, a light fixture or fenders were hand crafted by people, not machines.

Now, a stamping machine creates the HH look. And no one seems to care what it represented at one time.

Rant over.



Don't get me started on the HH look but actual plastic. GRRRRRRR
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Old 11-09-22, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
Don't get me started on the HH look but actual plastic. GRRRRRRR
The VO fenders are aluminum, not plastic.

Angry much? Lots of threads started complaining about stuff that nobody has complained about before.

-Kurt
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Old 11-09-22, 03:26 PM
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I have feelings about fenders, period.
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Old 11-09-22, 03:36 PM
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How many here would start a complaint thread about the high price of authentic, US made, actually hand-hammered fenders? Anybody?

Ever done any metal fabrication for a living? Know how freaking labor intensive hand-hammering that sheet is? Wanna pay the wage it would take for a guy to feed his family on that job?
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Old 11-09-22, 03:40 PM
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I don't have any bikes with fenders ........YET! I plan on a nice set of hammered copper(plate) fenders on my touring bike , a Motobecane Grand Sprint . I just don't like the mess on my clothes and bike when I'm riding on damp pavement . I like the hammered look whether applied by a machine or some poor soul in a shop somewhere.
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Old 11-09-22, 04:50 PM
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Counter point... Hand hammered items are still made and appreciated by folks.
Examples:
Tomii's USA made hand hammered bells that are always sold out despite their high cost:
Fancy hammered copper pots that rich folks like to hang in their kitchens

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Old 11-09-22, 04:53 PM
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Of Hammered Toasters



Buddy buddy, buddy...
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Old 11-09-22, 05:22 PM
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Shouldn’t this be in the OP's Pet Peeves thread?

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Old 11-09-22, 05:54 PM
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I suggest that if one doesn't like the aesthetics of a product, don't purchase it. No need to tell everybody about it.

As for fenders, you lucky souls that ride your bike in areas that are dry most the time, there's no need to ride with fenders. When I lived in the SF Bay Area I never bothered with fenders. If it was raining, I'd just wait a day or two. When I moved to the PNW I found that even when it's not raining, for 6-8 months out of the year the roads are wet. Fenders keep the bike clean. I don't have to worry about drought, it's green even in August. Fenders allow you to ride in Seattle in late October, heck, even all the way to Canada.

No fenders and rain:


Riding in showers with fenders:

Notice the smiling faces. Alright, @rccardr looks a bit grumpy.

Besides, fenders look cool.

And most "hammered" fenders aren't done by hand, they go through rollers to press a pattern on them. One of the advantages is structural, I believe, as the pattern stiffens up the fender a bit (at least that's my experience). Also, a scratch on a plain fender is easy to see, not so much on a hammered fender.



Don't ride in the rain? Rule 9 applies. Complaining about riding in the rain? Rule 5.
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Old 11-09-22, 06:38 PM
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Ah, so this is a "show your bike with hammered fenders" thread!
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Old 11-09-22, 06:45 PM
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I'm all for fenders. I went to the cyclocross state championships this last weekend. It was a mud pit. In fact, most won their heats by jumping off and running, slipping and crawling to the finish with their bikes slung over their shoulders.

I thought to myself, I WANT TO RIDE IN THE MUD, maybe not competitively, but it looked like a blast.

I live in Portland. Fenders allow someone to commute year round and not have a stripe up their back.

Even the Italian racers....most had eyelets on their drop-outs. Why?? So they could train in the winter too.

Go team fenders.
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Old 11-09-22, 06:54 PM
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Old 11-09-22, 06:55 PM
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I like hammered fenders.
You don't.
I'm OK with that.

Top
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Old 11-09-22, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
How many here would start a complaint thread about the high price of authentic, US made, actually hand-hammered fenders? Anybody?

Ever done any metal fabrication for a living? Know how freaking labor intensive hand-hammering that sheet is? Wanna pay the wage it would take for a guy to feed his family on that job?
In college I used a temp work agency. They would send me on the oddest jobs, often for a week only.

It opened up my eyes to how things are made and what it cost. I tried my hand at a machine shop that used an English wheel. I have sooooo much respect for people who have mastered that craft. For someone to take a flat sheet of metal and create a complex curve still gladdens my heart.

For fun, I would hang in Russ Meek's shop in Milwaukee OR. He builds racing cars to beat records in Bonneville. He also recreated a custom fender for my Vespa sidecar. No job to big or small.

I'm also friends with many local frame builders and someday I might have one built for me.

You are correct, I have no idea how they can feed their family. Some of these guys put 100's of hours into their craft. But I respect the hell outta them.

I wrote this post while waiting for word from the DR on my dog. I might have been in a bit of a mood. She will be fine they said.

I think I'll head to the bar down the block and have a MOJITO. I've earned it.

Rant over.



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Old 11-09-22, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
I think I'll head to the bar down the block and have a MOJITO. I've earned it.

I don't know if I earned one, but, yeah!
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Old 11-09-22, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
Go team fenders.
Rob, if that's the way you feel, why did you start this thread that suggests the opposite? Or, for that matter, the other similar, copycat threads that lead with some kind of vague rant that tends to agitate up a fairly petty debate?

We all have different preferences and sometimes like form over function. Yes, we all have our grievances with certain engineering decisions or stylistic choices, and that's fine for each of us to have these preferences - so long as we don't needlessly kick dirt into the contrary preferences of others for no clear reason. There's no reason to start discussions by stoking the boiler of divisiveness, and it's downright cowardly to go all moderate and somewhat apologetic when the heat mounts - which seems to be your MO. That's not something you do to friends or like-minded acquaintances (unless you're a politician).

You've been very charitable with this forum, I'll admit, but that doesn't give you a license to play with everyone's emotions or artfully stretch the rules as you have done recently in the sales forum.

I must hand it to this group for keeping it civil in a number of these threads, if not clearly trying to dial down the potential for this or any of your prior threads to become another cut-throat Rivendell thread.

P.S.: Just to keep this on topic...some fenders from my junk, both hammered and otherwise, and one set that I bought from France only for La Poste to completely lose it the moment it was dropped off (still in a cordial debate with the seller over it).








-Kurt
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Old 11-09-22, 08:49 PM
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I humbly apologize for ruffling any feathers.

No need to bring up the C&V Sales debacle. I posted in the main forum section, then it was moved to sales. The ferocity of comments was surprising. The rules were explained to me and I haven't posted anything from the non-profit place I volunteer at since.

I don't care what people do with their bikes, their cars, or in the privacy of their homes.

I don't judge others for what they do or don't do.

I personally studied Industrial Design (non-credited courses, on-line) through RISD during covid where I learned much about history, trends and technology. The "Hammered" look was brought up more than once as a thing which used to be hand-crafted, but can now be replicated with machines. I'm not a luddite, but the HH represented something.

Regardless, I was bored in the vet hospital's waiting room and started a thread perhaps I shouldn't have.
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Old 11-09-22, 09:01 PM
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That is a cool looking toaster though, hammered fenders not so much. Even so, both do what they are supposed to do.
Tim
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Old 11-09-22, 09:08 PM
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Thanks,

I own that toaster. I think toasters are fascinating.
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Old 11-09-22, 09:13 PM
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I have a bike boom Takara I would like to put fenders on, but fenders seem to cost more than a Takara is worth.
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Old 11-09-22, 09:19 PM
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... I like fenders. I spent about four hours today mounting a set onto a '70's Mondia, so I can ride it in the wet. I did not hand hammer them though, because they are that metal plastic composite that SKS uses. I don't mind being judged for that. Just to contribute something useful, did anyone else know that you can make fender stays for SKS type fenders out of old spokes ? You join two of them together at the threaded ends, using a spoke nipple, then bend a loop on one end for the dropout attachment hole, then fit it and cut to length at the fender attachment bolt.

I only just discovered this, from someone's old set of fenders.
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Old 11-09-22, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
I have a bike boom Takara I would like to put fenders on, but fenders seem to cost more than a Takara is worth.
...there is always a big pile of takeoff fenders at most co-ops. Figuring out creative ways to remount them to a different bike is an art form.
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Old 11-09-22, 09:21 PM
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It's freezing up here already. I wish I could imagine ordering a mojito at the bar.
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Old 11-09-22, 09:25 PM
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Ill have a go:

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Old 11-09-22, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
I don't judge others for what they do or don't do.
Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
Regardless, I...started a thread perhaps I shouldn't have.
Perhaps refer to exhibit A above before posting - perhaps it'll help to craft the thread in a more productive manner, eh?

Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
I personally studied Industrial Design (non-credited courses, on-line) through RISD during covid where I learned much about history, trends and technology. The "Hammered" look was brought up more than once as a thing which used to be hand-crafted, but can now be replicated with machines. I'm not a luddite, but the HH represented something.
By the time Lefol (and others) were doing them for the bikes we know and love, hammered and creased fenders were already machine made. I doubt if the majority of French constructeur bicycles during the early post-war years - when Rene Herse was machining out his own chainrings - had exclusively hand-hammered fenders.

-Kurt
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