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1968 Frejus Tour De France Project

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1968 Frejus Tour De France Project

Old 11-15-22, 12:15 PM
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1968 Frejus Tour De France Project

I introduced this acquisition in the "what's it worth" thread and now belongs hear as it is my latest N+1
I know it is in really questionable state but the price was reasonable. I am not.
The bad:
  • Finish and chrome
  • Stuck seat post (incomplete HW)
  • Water still in the tubes.
  • Frozen pedals - freed up with Kroil and missing one cap and lock nut
  • Rusty brakes
  • Pits on one race of the spindle
  • Not a Record but one or two down
  • Unremarkable wheel set in 27"
The good:
  • Came from the original owner even though it was abused.
  • Nice feel to the head set. Need to disassemble but don't feel any roughness and it is a Frejus head set.
  • Really good lock ring on the BB and adjustable cup looks good. Expect the DS to be good to.
  • Usable Cinelli 1A stem
  • Frejus seat post collar
  • Nice chain breaker
  • Campagnolo Super Record pedals in really nice condition except as noted.
  • Compact pump that works
  • Nice unique DT cable bracket for FD with Housing - Shimano
  • RD CS Cable stop
  • Undamaged frame and fork other than corrosion.
The seat post is still stuck so it will have to sit for a time while I try to figure out why I bought this mess!
Guess I will learn about rebuilding Super Leggra pedals.
Any information you can share in addition to that which is on the "worth" thread would be appreciated.
PXL_20221115_180109829 on Flickr

Model and size on BB shell
68FrejusBBID on Flickr

SN For those who like to collect them
68FrejusSN on Flickr

Long crimping on the chain stays.
68FrejusCSRelief on Flickr

Took the effort to provide a flat surface to mount fenders
68FrejusCSBridge on Flickr
68FrejusBrakeBridge on Flickr

68FrejusTopBBShell on Flickr

Chrome on the head lugs look OK not so much on the fork crown.
68FrejusBottomHTLub on Flickr
68FrejusFrokCrownFull on Flickr

What did this decal look like?
68FrejusForkDecal on Flickr

To be continued.
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Old 11-15-22, 12:22 PM
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Campagnolo DO on the fork. I am really nervous about the integrity of the fork based on the corrosion. Not sure I have a buffing wheel that will fix this. Yes, it is a bent fork.
68FrejusForkDOCampagnolo on Flickr

No ID on the rear DO. Looks stamped but.... Nice finish on the DO/Stay joint.
68FrejusRearDO on Flickr

nice workmanship on the seat cluster too.
68FrejusSeatCluster on Flickr
68FrejusSeatClusterFront on Flickr

You don't need to imagine why the BB felt rough.
68FrejusBBSpindle on Flickr

The owner bought it in 1968 here.
68FrejusShopSticker on Flickr

Interesting decal.
68FrejusDTTDFDecal on Flickr

Sucker for chrome head lugs. Nice Frejus HS too.
68FrejusHTUpperLug on Flickr

To wrap it up, here is the head badge. Feel free to visit the links for more pictures.
68FrejusHeadBadge on Flickr

Opinions of what to do with the frame set would be interesting, junk, ultimate patina, refinish.
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Old 11-15-22, 12:47 PM
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How much money do you want to spend on it? That's probably the first thing you need to ask yourself.
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Old 11-15-22, 12:53 PM
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@satbuilder - Good question. I have nearly all the parts needed to make it ridable. Might need to build up wheels from existing hubs and rims. Calipers are a good question with the conversion to 700. Would need these too
Might as well build it up and try it out. Not in any hurry. Need to finish the Bianchi.

Having read your Masi project, I can understand your response!
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Old 11-15-22, 01:25 PM
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With some of the chrome being gone anyway, i would say embrace the patina.
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Old 11-15-22, 02:05 PM
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-----

thread of chainstay bridge boss is 5.0mm X .8

bottom bracket assembly is Record (pre-NR), top of the line in its day
not original to cycle as original chainset would have been cottered steel

original pedals would have been Sheffield


-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-15-22 at 02:39 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 11-15-22, 04:06 PM
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Yea, Chrome is expensive to replate and I'm not sure how it would come out. Actually overall the bike is presentable at the very least the way it is. I think you are on the right track . Get it rideable and enjoy, it is in better shape than a couple of my riders and ya know what? I can't see the bad chrome and patina while I'm riding , it feels like I'm riding a new bike when I'm on them! I spent quite a bit of money to get my Colnago painted and I'm glad I did it but it rides the same as it did before so.... ?
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Old 11-15-22, 05:50 PM
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@juvela - The PO was the original owner and he did express the fact that it had a steel crank set. I have mixed thoughts about looking for one.
The BB is very nice. I hoping to get the fixed cup off and to a thourough cleaning of the inside of the shell. You can imagine how bad it is based on the pic above about BB. There was a paper sleeve in there too.
I will get it ridalble after the excitement of the Bianchi wanes a little. I have to get the seat post out too.
The Bianch came with the Nuovo Gran Sport RD and I think I have a FD to go with it along with the shifters.
Wheels will be another issue but I do have some Tipo HF that would work really well with NISI rims.
Brake calipers are an open issue.
I removed the fork and the primitive finish on the races don't really show wear.
PXL_20221115_191723461 on Flickr

Cleaned it up and removed the cups from the head lugs. Going to do a mineral bath in the sonic cleaner tomorrow.

I took the fork with pealing or lost "chrome" to the brass wire wheel.
PXL_20221115_201620738 on Flickr
I think it might clean up really well.
You might notice that there isn't any plating under the chrome! straight chrome on steel! Flakes right off. Any kind of abrasive will take it right off.

Here is a front drop out.
PXL_20221115_201634304 on Flickr

This thread might just go dormant for awhile while I work on the Bianchi and try to get the seat post out along with the fixed cup removal.
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Old 11-15-22, 06:37 PM
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Ive got the same frame in similar condition, mine is missing the head badge but my chrome is a bit better than yours. My thread went dormant too while I gather parts. Like you I have some high flange Tipo hubs but mine are laced to 27 steel rims. I pulled my wheel set off of a 67 Atala Grand Prix that I got for cheap. Clearances look large and you could probably put some nice wide tires on yours if you go with 700c. Ive been thinking about a Gran Sport derailleur and a steel crankset along with some old steel fenders. Ill probably use mine as a five speed. I have no idea yet what Ill do for handlebars, a stem or a brake set. I like the patina on yours quit a lot, its a pretty frame. Good luck with the stuck seat post. Ill be following this with interest.
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Old 11-16-22, 12:18 AM
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You are lucky that the seatpost has a forged cradle. Put the frame upside-down in a vise and dribble the thinnest liquid penetrant you can down the seattube - at least enough to fill the post and bring the level above the bottom of the post when inverted.

Then, as your whims and patience allow, every now and then grab the seatpost and headtube, and try to rotate the frame around the post. Do not grab the stays; easy to make that mistake and windup cold setting the rear triangle unexpectedly. It might take days, but if you can get it to budge just once, you've opened the door for continued motion. Keep at it back and forth until it pops a few times more; at that point, it'll get looser and looser. The penetrant just might start to get in between the tube and the post too (though you won't be able to see it; it won't really drip out until it's entirely loose.

You might get to a point where it'll loosen up but won't move. At this point, you need to find a way to either re-mount the vise to the floor or have a really sturdy workbench you can stand on - so as to pull upwards on the frame while alternating the main triangle back and forth.

It also helps immensely if your vise doesn't have the ability to rotate. Mine is welded to prevent such. Unrelated pic, but you can see the weld bead on it:




-Kurt
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Old 11-16-22, 12:28 AM
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opinions on what to do with the frameset...


"How much you got?"
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Old 11-16-22, 05:13 AM
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I have an earlier TdF, also with the Wastyn decal.

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Old 11-16-22, 06:25 AM
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@Pcampeau - Good to hear I am not alone! Given the availability of decals, I would assume there are a number of them out there.
I would like to go back to the cotter crank assembly. I will have to pay attention to what is available. 5 in the back is likely. There are several choices on the peg board.
P1040512 on Flickr
@cudak888 - Good info. I did hit it with Kroil and put some Freeze it in the ST but did not fill the seat post by any means. I don't know how long it is. I may have to make a mix of ATF and Acetone and try that out.
My bench vice is bolted to the 8'x3' bench but does move at the interface. The stays are the biggest concern. I have also used a dead blow mallet on the seat post head with the BB shell supported. In addition, heat was applied to the post.
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Old 11-16-22, 08:25 AM
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Fork is definitely matched to the frame.
PXL_20221115_191807681 on Flickr
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Old 11-16-22, 09:32 AM
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Great news on the fork! I have tried just about all the methods you mention on removing stuck seat posts. The worst was my $20 Motobecane , it took a week of gentle tapping on the post itself(not the bike!) and applying more penetrating fluid . I would go out and apply the fluid and tap, tap, tap , and let it sit . After about 6-7 days I put it in my vise here at my shop and it moved without too much effort. When I lived on a sailboat and had stuck fittings I was taught by an older gentleman the technique and it has always worked for me. The vibration of tapping on the item eventually allows the fluid to penetrate the stuck components. I use one of my brass hammers that I made as an apprentice in my youth at an Aerospace company. Tap all around the item rapidly , imagine a woodpecker, not hard just enough for the vibratory effect . More fluid....repeat! Patience is key, on the Moto I did not have to apply a great deal of force on the frame , just a firm shove with the main part of the frame .
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Old 11-16-22, 10:33 AM
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Going back to the cottered crank might require you to be young and strong. Mine was a 50/47 in front and a 14-22 or perhaps 14-24 in back shifted by a Gran sport rear. Keeping gearing like that, your shifting will be fine, but I had poor luck with easier gearing.

I have seen 49/46 front also, and I am told the 116bcd three arm crank can accept something in the mid 30 tooth range, but I’m not sure how available they are. I did search a bit in the past with no luck. The crank arm also has to be compatible too. Nice project for you.
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Old 11-16-22, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12 View Post
Patience is key.
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Old 11-16-22, 12:29 PM
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Vintage Frejus Cottered Cranks Bicycle Crank Set Road Bike Frejus | eBay
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Old 11-16-22, 12:55 PM
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-----

Mark Campbell (Condorino) writes rather extensively regarding the steel chainsets employed by Bozzi through the decades.

Sets from Agrati, FB, Gnutti, Magistroni and Way-Assauto can sometimes be quite similar.

He concludes that Emilio's main provider was Way-Assauto although others were used off and on through time. W-A ceased the fabrication of cycle fittings ~1972, although yet active today with other products.

Magistroni (Giostra) nominally ceased play in 1965 so it is somewhat unlikely a 1968 cycle would have been fitted with one...


-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-16-22 at 12:58 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 01-19-23, 10:32 AM
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Update on stuck seat post.
I have been "KROILing" it since slightly before the last post with periodic applied heat and leaving it out in sub-freezing temperatures with no gain. Included dumping some down the ST from the BB shell.
Today I tried again to twist it with the seat post head in a vice. Something turned! I was almost excited but new better. After some checking, it was the seat post head twisting in the seat post pillar.

A hole was drilled near the head and a bolt inserted to transfer the torque. Well.....
PXL_20230119_152150196.MP on Flickr
Now I could look down the hole to see how long the post is inserted into the ST. Stuck a 29x spoke down the hole to use the hook to find the edge of the post. I could see it but couldn't judge where it ended. The spolke was too short even with pliers holding the very end.
Pulled the roll of bailing wire out and put a hook in the end. Straightedged it out and stuck in down the tube.
PXL_20230119_151719956 on Flickr

See the fadded most ring next to the map of France? That is where the end of the post is. That measures about 8 inches from the end of the ST where the step down for the collar is.

I really don't see a possabity of getting the post out with multiple applications of KROIL or Freeze Off or any other solution. Might take years for penetration and then the friction would still be huge.
Lye treatment is the next step.

Right now, this frame is low priority, so I am going to focus on getting uniformity on the spokes for the Bianchi and prep the daughters frame for paint. Oh and there are three sewups to repair.
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Old 01-19-23, 10:42 AM
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Looks like the bike was just wastyn away until you rescued it.

Very graceful merge of the seat stays into the seat cluster.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:52 AM
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Cool the seat post (not the frame) with liquid nitrogen (LN2). The frame will also get cold but the seat post will shrink a lot more than the frame. Shrinkage will at least break any corrosion sealing it in place. If you can pull while it is still cold, it may come right out. If you cannot get LN2, dry ice may work.

I know, it's a whacky idea, but I do know where to go to get LN2, which is actually fairly inexpensive.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Looks like the bike was just wastyn away until you rescued it.

Very graceful merge of the seat stays into the seat cluster.

-----

actually with this Malaguti style seat lug the stays are cut off bluntly to accept the plugs on the seat lug





-----
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Old 01-19-23, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
----- actually with this Malaguti style seat lug the stays are cut off bluntly to accept the plugs on the seat lug -----
Well, whaddaya know? Neat but I presume this makes the angle of the seat stays versus top and seat tubs fixed? (Not a frame builder, maybe this is not a problem?)
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Old 01-19-23, 02:00 PM
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@tiger1964 Ben figured out how to get around that.
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