No More Flips, Now Catch and Release
 

Just a suggestion for those of us passionate about vintage machines. Catch and release just seems nicer and more true to what many of us do.

Certainly appropriate for me.... I never, and I mean never, make money. I am too much a perfectionist. Can't sell junk or sub par work.

As a fisherman who often practices C&R, I need to point out that not all released individuals survive.

Yep... I get it... But don't take me wrong... I am still fishing for that Italian SLX frame... And its gonna be a keeper!

Devil's advocate:

Not all of us can afford to catch what we want without making a few dollars along the way with what we know, nor can one necessarily release without putting a fair amount of money into a bike (have you seen the price of tires recently?). Also, some of us are sensible enough not to use our income to finance this hoardin - uh, hobby and will only put into it what we get out of it.

Plus, provided one isn't gouging the daylights out of their brethren, it also means some of us are a lot more likely to take on bikes or parts we'd otherwise pass up. In other words, bikes and parts that may not be of interest to us, but may be exactly what a fellow forum member may be seeking, but can't find in their area.

Case in point, I just sold a rusty Marinoni frameset that I would have never otherwise bought for myself. However, I knew someone here would want it, and - sure enough - made a modest few dollars on it while making someone else very happy. That same Marinoni was destined for the scrap pile otherwise. Why? The non-profit renting the space it was stored in could not afford to pay the rent anymore.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3e7ccfa691.jpg

This hobby costs money - often significantly so - and I don't see anyone handing grants out to individual collectors amusing themselves. Mind, not even the non-profit with this space survived. It closed down shortly thereafter, even despite being a 501(c)(3) and thus eligible to apply for grants.

That said, there are always opportunities to give back selflessly. Just before the pandemic, I was able to get the bikeshare/scooter share company Spin to donate 600 of their retired bikes, no strings attached. A volunteer off Twitter and myself pulled the locks and numbers, serviced everything we could, and donated them right out of the warehouse to a number of non-profits and local churches. There were no major parts costs as there was a healthy pile of donors to work from, and everything was solid tire. That's the type of situation where doing some giving good is easy and warranted - the primary investment is labor, which is not a big thing for a good cause.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dee2cb75ba.jpg

Now, if you can afford to throw money at a few bikes and do a genuine catch-and-release at your expense, well, all the power to you. Just don't put yourself in a financial bind doing so. It may not be what you want to hear, but parts and consumables usually cost money, and those prices aren't coming down.

Unless you've bought out a bike shop or two of parts at a cut-throat price, you are going to be absorbing the brunt of that cost.

-Kurt

But I thought BF = bike flippahs?

Borked Finances.

-Kurt

I agree in principal but it often breaks down when the receiving party then flips it. It has happened to me more than once on this very forum. I do my best to price for sale items fairly and know that if I sell something in this forum, you tend to get back what you give.

Flippah gotta flip ©*

*copyright Neal Lerner

Like Kurt, more and more of my projects are rescued bikes and frames. A lot of them were headed to scrap. By saving these bikes, repairing and then moving them to a new home, I keep some nice stuff available for others to enjoy.

it is amazing some of the bikes that go into scrap piles. A bike as scrap is worth about 30 cents, 50 cents max. And when scrapped, those parts are gone forever. Anymore, there is only a sliver of the bicycle world that appreciates older obscure brands. This is where some of us step in.

There was a generic MTB frame tossed in the back-door trash tip inside the loading dock at the Miami Museum of Art. Wrecked rear wheel, decent looking aluminum frame, no seatpost, no front wheel. Looked as if it was a bike left littered around from one of the numerous tweakers in the area and never recovered.

Even at that point, had I the time and some spare 559's, I would have probably nagged the security guard about it and maybe called the front desk to see if some of the higher ups would let it go. I'm not against doing a full build-up out of just a frame if I've got the parts and the frame has somehow survived whatever abuse they've been through. My '61 Paramount came through the LBS more or less that way.

-Kurt

In fishing, when you catch and release, you don't improve the fish.*

I improve the fish. er, bike.

* As far as we know the fish is not improved. Of course, it could be the near death experience made him enjoy every subsequent day more than ever...

Even if you come out slightly negative, one could view it as just a rental fee. As in other hobby areas, one can’t have them all. Having one for a time let’s us experience that specimen and then pass it on. We are caretakers of these items and a few are special enough to stay with us.

I buy for parts usually. the only reason I don't have more um, stuff is that I'll literally buy a bike for one part, replace it with something less desirable to me and sell it for what I paid or a little less.
I bought a piece of crap BSO for 20 bucks to get the zoom stem.
A bike had front wheel with a white industries tracker hub in it, the rest of it was crap. 10 bucks. Gave the bike away sans hub. Same story I'm sure as most of the rest of you.

It's been a minute since I flipped a bike, but I dont think it's inappropriate to do so.
I always clean them and make sure they are in good mechanical condition. That often means replacing cables and housing, and/or tires, and/or grips or tape, etc.

The bike is then listed as funny working and ready to ride. It's priced higher than I purchased, but also priced to get out of my garage in a decent amount of time.


None of that seems like a negative. Why would I catch and release a bike?...who pays for a bike just to immediately try and flip it for the same amount? Just don't buy it to begin with- seems a lot easier in life.

I could be wrong, I often am, but I think the OP was implying that the C&V community here is mostly not cut throat and is using catch and release as a phrase not as pejorative as flipper.

Now, I don’t mean to offend any self-proclaimed flipper, we’re loud and we’re proud so deal with it. I mean the folks who think money is the root of all good and don’t care what gets in their way to make the almighty buck. Those flippers can go **** themselves.

Well explained - many of us won't flip a bike without going top to bottom through it until it's perfect and ready for many more years of service. By definition, we have to invest a not insignificant amount of money in them.

By comparison, the type of flips that many here find irredeemableare, in a way, catch and release affairs: A seller buys a bike of value for next to nothing, and attempts to flip it for top dollar without doing a thing to it - whether or not the cables are frayed or the tires are dryrotted to oblivion.

-Kurt

Yeah, "catch-and-release" is sounding a lot like DKO sellers: do some dirt knock off and get it on Craig's List, stat.

I approve of catch and release, but often they die. I'm only talking about fish.

No matter how many times we change a word, that has seemingly become a negative, to a new word, that new word will inevitably take on those perceived negative connotations. Context is what matters.

"I flipped a bike today. Picked it up for a reasonable $200 considering the wear and tear. Put about $80 into it, plus some stuff from my stash, and let it go to a nice lady for $350, which she was thrilled to hand over. She loves it! You should have seen her face."

"I flipped a bike today. Some dumbass had a complete Cinelli SC listed for $20. I pushed my kids out of the way and ran down there as fast as I could. What a clueless dolt. I could hardly contain my excitement as I wheeled it away. The original chain still measured perfect. Sold it to a Japanese guy for $10,000."

Substitute caught and released in either statement. The meaning stays the same.

Key BF modification: "Some dumbass had a complete Cinelli SC listed for $20. I pushed my kids out of the way and ran down there as fast as I could. I offered him $10, and we settled at $15."

Shouldn't the word "grail" be in there somewhere, as well?

Right! What was I thinking? Never pay full ask!

I suppose my perspective is skewed. I catch and release bikes all the time as it makes sense to me. Guess if it costs me 30-40 bucks to rehab a classic and can pass it on to another person who will actually ride it, then that pays off in ways that money can't buy. I could spend 120 bucks on an NFL game, sit in the nose bleed section, and pay 22 bucks for a soda, or spend 40 bucks on a cable or two and put a bike in the hands of an appreciative individual. With the bike I served myself a delightful few hours of time working on a simple mechanical device and I served a stranger in need. This is how I prefer to go about it. By the way, there is nothing wrong with flipping for a profit, especially if the money is needed to supplement a main income.
No matter what, there is no need to defend one position or the other as I was just bringing up a different way to approach things. As for fishing, I catch to eat unless the fish is undersized. I don't sport fish, but most of my buddies do.

Tell me more about the “release” part of this. I’m not familiar.