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New, but inspired by vintage

Old 11-25-22, 07:00 PM
  #1  
67tony 
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New, but inspired by vintage

Looks like a fairly decent steel bike for $650.
22 pounds? Hmmmm...

State Bikes...


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Old 11-25-22, 07:14 PM
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Agreed, turn key, very reasonable $$$ and ready to rock.
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Old 11-25-22, 07:29 PM
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Nice.... and since its a limited run to 50, eventually might even become a cult object once, when everyone else cries "I should have bought one as well BITD".
Good to see that some still understand, that vintage or even vintage-eque modern should not necessarily be equal to $$$
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Old 11-25-22, 07:35 PM
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It's a nicely sorted out build - though the by-the-numbers Merckx ripoff suggests a certain lack of imagination.

As much as I want to say nice things about it, the lack of lugs just doesn't cut it - for me, at least. The TIG welds aren't badly done, but it still reminds me of those cheap diamond frame fixies that flooded the market 10 years ago (which State most definitely was a part of), once manufacturers realized young folks were buying things that looked like C&V framesets.

I realize that you don't get much for your money these days, but - honestly, at that price point, I'd expect a retro frameset to come lugged - especially for such a limited run. Weird dropouts, a sloping top tube, a 1-1/8" headtube, or threadless headset - I can look aside to that, but TIG instead of lugs? Just doesn't hit the right nostalgia buttons. You'd think lugged would technically be easier to build on an assembly line too.

In some ways - this reminds me of the Raleigh SBDU replica debacle from last year, just in a more affordable package (and thus shouldn't be scrutinized as hard as the Raleigh) from a different manufacturer than the homage.

-Kurt
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Old 11-25-22, 07:49 PM
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I believe the lower-end / heavier lugged frames can be mass produced on an assembly line - but the high-end lightweight lugged frames are hand brazed
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Old 11-25-22, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
It's a nicely sorted out build - though the by-the-numbers Merckx ripoff suggests a certain lack of imagination.

As much as I want to say nice things about it, the lack of lugs just doesn't cut it - for me, at least. The TIG welds aren't badly done, but it still reminds me of those cheap diamond frame fixies that flooded the market 10 years ago (which State most definitely was a part of), once manufacturers realized young folks were buying things that looked like C&V framesets.

I realize that you don't get much for your money these days, but - honestly, at that price point, I'd expect a retro frameset to come lugged - especially for such a limited run. Weird dropouts, a sloping top tube, a 1-1/8" headtube, or threadless headset - I can look aside to that, but TIG instead of lugs? Just doesn't hit the right nostalgia buttons. You'd think lugged would technically be easier to build on an assembly line too.

In some ways - this reminds me of the Raleigh SBDU replica debacle from last year, just in a more affordable package (and thus shouldn't be scrutinized as hard as the Raleigh) from a different manufacturer than the homage.

-Kurt
Been in your LBS recently? Lugged frame complete bike new for $650? That would be astounding! I'm guessing that globally the number of factories set up to produce quality lugged frames is small and shrinking, and as far as I know you cannot buy a new lugged frameset from anyone in the USA for less than a grand -- I'd say this is a deal. Yes, I agree, lugs would be nicer, but this thing is a bargain by today's standards. It is not really for the committed C&V hobbyist, but for those who want to get the feel and look without lots of effort in refurbishing something...
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Old 11-25-22, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JulesCW View Post
Been in your LBS recently? Lugged frame complete bike new for $650? That would be astounding! I'm guessing that globally the number of factories set up to produce quality lugged frames is small and shrinking, and as far as I know you cannot buy a new lugged frameset from anyone in the USA for less than a grand -- I'd say this is a deal. Yes, I agree, lugs would be nicer, but this thing is a bargain by today's standards. It is not really for the committed C&V hobbyist, but for those who want to get the feel and look without lots of effort in refurbishing something...
My LBS wouldn't have this bike available either, if one wanted to split hairs about it

But as for it being a deal - I'm not sure I'd call a $150 markup for a saddle and paint job a deal. The deal, perhaps, is the base model State 4130 Road which this is based on - which is currently $499: https://www.statebicycle.com/product...road-americana. The only thing that really seems to stand out as different (minus the paint job) is the Selle Italia Turbo.

I'm not sure one can generalize that much about what State is thinking with these. There's one thing about marketing to the non-mechanically inclined rider that likes a vintage look, but when your clientele is small enough that your entire run is all of 50 pieces, it feels as if they're testing the waters to see if a vintage inspired paint job will help these move at a higher price.

P.S.: I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few companies in Taiwan (where this is made) have the tooling to do lugged frames, but have had little reason to recommission it. It's probably a bit unusual to gear up for steel production for US buyers, for that matter.

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Old 11-25-22, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 67tony View Post
Looks like a fairly decent steel bike for $650.
22 pounds? Hmmmm...
betcha the 22 pound version is this one. no pedals and these bars
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Old 11-25-22, 09:40 PM
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Really let's you know what a deal we are getting with a vintage Reynolds or Columbus frame when you find a used one that fits.
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Old 11-25-22, 10:30 PM
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I know this sounds harsh, but I strongly dislike this bike, and the other State models that share this frame. Why? Because they didn't include a left shifter boss. I have nothing against 1x setups or selling this bike with a 1x drivetrain, but how many dollars did they save leaving off the second boss and a nice cap to cover it? Not many, I'd guess, so it's inexcusable to me that they've made it harder and less appealing for anyone who wants to modify this bike from its stock configuration in the future to do so.
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Old 11-25-22, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lasauge View Post
I know this sounds harsh, but I strongly dislike this bike, and the other State models that share this frame. Why? Because they didn't include a left shifter boss. I have nothing against 1x setups or selling this bike with a 1x drivetrain, but how many dollars did they save leaving off the second boss and a nice cap to cover it? Not many, I'd guess, so it's inexcusable to me that they've made it harder and less appealing for anyone who wants to modify this bike from its stock configuration in the future to do so.
Don't forget that the seattube isn't round, and thus you can't mount an FD to it.

Come to think of it, now I'm irritated by the vertical dropouts. If it had horizontal drops, at least it would facilitate an IGH, which could benefit from the single boss.

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Old 11-25-22, 10:45 PM
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That fork

And that's all I have to say about that.

DD
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Old 11-26-22, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
That fork

And that's all I have to say about that.
Forks can be replaced, but frames have to be right the first time.

Case in point, this is one of Mike Terraferma's personal frames. The frame is done and over, but that hasn't stopped Mike from rethinking the fork; in other words, a curved fork is in its future.



That's not to say the straight blade trend is waning, but some are thinking twice about their appropriateness on lugged or C&V-inspired steel.

-Kurt
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Old 11-26-22, 03:14 AM
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It’s very interesting idea. Sure it doesn’t have lugs and uses a 1 1/8 HS but they ended up with a nice over all pancake that would appeal to someone not wanting plastic. To bad they only built a limited number are ther plans to do more?

I agree the graphics choice is weak and I’m the Merckx people aren’t to happy.
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Old 11-26-22, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by t2p View Post
I believe the lower-end / heavier lugged frames can be mass produced on an assembly line - but the high-end lightweight lugged frames are hand brazed
Miyata used robot brazing to make high-end lugged frames in the 1980s, they advertised this in their catalogs. Supposedly the robot brazing was so precise that nothing required filing afterwards.
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Old 11-26-22, 05:16 AM
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Don't mind the fork, but the downtube shifter makes it less desirable to me, especially with those bars.
Should be 1x xx with a thumbie. The graphics leave a bit to be desired, as well. But the fork, the fork is cool, It's got a jaunty rake.
Those Maxy/Dura Ace looking cranks on the second bike are nice too
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Old 11-26-22, 05:58 AM
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Nice bike!!!! Years ago, State had a bad wrap about Q.C. Did they get better and if so, what is changed?
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Old 11-26-22, 07:09 AM
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Okay, I‘ll put this one out there: My new Fitz--TIG welded, steel,1 1/8“ thredless, straight-blade fork and also low trail:

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Old 11-26-22, 09:36 AM
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All I know is when I’m showing up to a group hammerfest, I’m not looking for “Casually” to trigger fear and self-doubt in others!
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Old 11-26-22, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Okay, I‘ll put this one out there: My new Fitz--TIG welded, steel,1 1/8“ thredless, straight-blade fork and also low trail:

How are fitz bikes? I've always wondered.
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Old 11-26-22, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by plonz View Post
All I know is when I’m showing up to a group hammerfest, I’m not looking for “Casually” to trigger fear and self-doubt in others!
The frame/fork construction wasn't unexpected, but that name, lol.

What were the other options? Saunter? Sensibly? Takin' it easy?
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Old 11-26-22, 11:44 AM
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It's obviously a very pretty bike but all in all the deciding factor in it's success will be if they sell...

And for how much...
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Old 11-26-22, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
The frame/fork construction wasn't unexpected, but that name, lol.

What were the other options? Saunter? Sensibly? Takin' it easy?
They could have pissed off two legends and called it a Merzkx.

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Old 11-26-22, 01:27 PM
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I don't see anything wrong with this. It all depends, of course, on the prospective buyer's needs.
A few observations: I'd put on a Kinesis aluminum (curved) fork to drop a couple pounds. This weight reduction would make the bike faster and more nimble, and the 11-44T gearing gives 106 gear inches, so speed shouldn't be a problem. If you want to upgrade the components, you could do that at your leisure. State offers a five-year warranty, but I'd still keep an eye on those welds for the first 1,000 miles. This will probably be a successful foray for State.
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Old 11-26-22, 02:41 PM
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Nice start but I'll wait for a more gravel-ready variation with clearance for 700x32 tires and a proper curvy sexy fork, something between my '89 Ironman and '93 Univega Via Carisma.

The State bike's single chainring doesn't bother me, although it really needs a 10 or 11 cog cassette for wider appeal, if they're gonna make it impossible or difficult to mount a front derailleur. But for my flattish area with rollers, single chainring and 8-speed is fine. But I'd prefer 12-32. 11 tooth cogs feel weird to me -- I forget the proper term, but the tight turn makes the chain feel grindy. I've switched all my existing 8 and 10 speed cassettes to smoother running 12T small cogs wherever possible, which usually means Sunrace cassettes -- which are pretty danged good values if you get the chromed versions. And my aging legs want 28T at a minimum now, preferably 32T or even 34T.

The downtube shifter is no-go for gravel. I've used my Ironman with original 2x7-speed downtube shifters on our local light-gravel (crushed limestone, pea gravel, chat trail, not serious railroad ballast type gravel like we see in some farm and ranch areas). It's oh-kay, but I'd prefer brifters or bar-ends. I already have a set of 8-speed Ultegra and 10-speed Dura Ace bar-ends. There are times when our groomed gravel-lite trails are booby trapped by the maintenance crews by filling ruts and potholes with loose sand a pea gravel. It's practically invisible in some lighting and a disaster waiting to happen if you happen to be reaching down to shift when the front wheel plows in the sandtraps.

Maybe what I really want is just the frame and fork, with clearance for 700x32. But that frame really needs braze-ons for a front derailleur. Not everyone will be happy with a single chainring.

My Univega fork is just a mite too springy, but very comfy. Only reason it's not already my main drop bar gravel bike is the frame is a bit heavy, and at 60cm, just a mite too big for my 5'11" frame. The stretched out position didn't bother me until my cervical neck stenosis got bad, but not it's comfy only as an upright hybrid with Nitto albatross swept bars to reduce the reach.

My Ironman would make a fine light-duty gravel-ish bike, but really needs clearance for wider tires.

Anyway, this is the first State bike that's grabbed my attention, even if it is only vaguely C&V.
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