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Paul component center pull vs. Dia-Compe 806 Dual-Pivot

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Paul component center pull vs. Dia-Compe 806 Dual-Pivot

Old 12-03-22, 11:58 AM
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Positron400
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Paul component center pull vs. Dia-Compe 806 Dual-Pivot

Hi,

I am not terribly satisified with my current brake setup on my old trekking bike. It originally came equipped with side-pull Weinmanns which is switched out for Dia-Compe 806 dual pivots. This was already quite the improvement from the stock setup, but it's not even remotely comparable to the braking power the V-brakes on my commuter can deliver.
Thus I am considering switching over to center pull. Dia Compe has some nice affordable offerings (or old-school Mafac, but i cannot seem to get my hands on those anywhere locally) or i could go all out for paul component center pull brakes.
However, I am unsure if the braking power is an improvement over my current setup.
Can some of you advise on this topic before i go and spend money for nothing?

Setup wise, i would need a fork bolt-mounted version to work, since i have no braze ons (otherwise i would've switched to v-brakes)

BR
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Old 12-03-22, 12:06 PM
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I can’t speak to the comparison, but I have Paul centerpulls on one bike, and the braking performance is really impressive (with Shimano aero levers). Just about the best of any rim brake bike I have (including v-brakes).
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Old 12-03-22, 12:12 PM
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Thanks for your comment, that's great to know - I kind figured, that pauls were top of the line, but they are REALLY spendy (400 bucks for a pair). What type of center pull do you have? nut-mounted or braze-ons? Also what tyre with do you have and how's the clearance?
I run 32 Panaracer Gravelkings 700c with 45 mm SKS fenders.
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Old 12-03-22, 12:19 PM
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The levers can be a significant factor in terms of leverage/power, and the choice of pads are another big variable (black usually offers the greatest power in dry conditions).

How far up in the slots that the pad studs reside can have a significant effect on leverage. So, if the pads are needing to be at the bottom of the slots, then perhaps you should scale up to a larger caliper that features longer arms between the cable anchorage and the pivots.
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Old 12-03-22, 12:29 PM
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I have nutted Paul center pull calipers on one bike and I concur with nlerner , they are probably the best brakes I own.
Pictures!

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Old 12-03-22, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I have nutted Paul center pull calipers on one bike and I concur with nlerner , they are probably the best brakes I own.
Pictures!

thanks! that looks very nice! - Do you know what the distance of the nut to the center of the brake track is? Also, would you kindly share what you payed for these? And how do you think, would these compare to a set of NOS Mafac?

EDIT: My current setup:

Back Brake

Front Brake

Last edited by Positron400; 12-03-22 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 12-03-22, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I have nutted Paul center pull calipers on one bike and I concur with nlerner , they are probably the best brakes I own.
Pictures!

Not even a complete picture of the bike and I'm drooling. Beautiful! The black Paul brakes look dynamite on it!
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Old 12-03-22, 01:47 PM
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I have Paul brakes on all of my bikes because they give me the best braking performance in their class.

If I were to build a new bike tomorrow it would have Paul brakes.
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Old 12-03-22, 01:57 PM
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I don't know the distance of the nut to the brake track and unfortunately the bike is stored at my MIL's house. I can measure it in a few weeks. There was plenty of room for 28mm tires and fenders.

I don't remember the price I paid when I bought them well over a decade ago. IIRC it close to Paul's retail price from a seller on ebay.

Thanks for the compRiddleOfSteel !
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Old 12-03-22, 02:27 PM
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Have heard good things about the new repro Gran Compe 450s. 1/4 the price of Paulís.
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Old 12-03-22, 02:43 PM
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Yea.. 450s look well nice, but i need a longer distance of nut-to-brake track unfortunately. Still 200 € (half of what pauls go for)

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Old 12-03-22, 03:53 PM
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What brake pads are you running? The current gen of shimano inserts- R55C4, are a major upgrade over most generic refills. They're cheap workshop supplies at most LBS. Kool stop salmon dura also good upgrade.
Also what levers?

I don't reckon centerpulls would be an upgrade over dual pivots, except in coolness.
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Old 12-03-22, 04:22 PM
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I'm pretty certain the Pauls are straight up Mafacs geometry and use-wise. Probably more material in the arms and stiffer but that's speculation. So speaking from 55 years of Mafac Racer experience - 32c tires and the world's skinnest rims? Simply not an issue. You can go a lot wider. You will have to lift the straddle cable off one arm but that is easy. My two winter/rain/bikes use Mafac fronts. (One pair split up, The rear gets a quality bolt from say Ace hardware. A pair of Weinmanns with stiffer feel and less power are split up to be rears. Front and rear now feel the same and the front is that wonderful Mafac. Both bikes are stopper! I have to remember that the bikes behind me cannot match my stops. (They may have my brakes' power, but the Mafac "sponge" means that I do not lock up my tires and they probably will.)

Edit: I use any KoolSop pads that physically work. They're all excellent and with those brakes, work well in the wet. (So did the original Mafac pads when they were new.) Shimanos are good too. I pass on others.

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Old 12-03-22, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Soody View Post
What brake pads are you running? The current gen of shimano inserts- R55C4, are a major upgrade over most generic refills. They're cheap workshop supplies at most LBS. Kool stop salmon dura also good upgrade.
Also what levers?

I don't reckon centerpulls would be an upgrade over dual pivots, except in coolness.
Yep, R55C4 are the inserts i currently use. Levers are the og Weinman. One of the few parts on the bike i haven't changed yet.

EDIT: I should add, that this bike originally came with 27'' wheels, and I have since upgraded to 700c. This makes the nut-brake-track distance "awkwardly" long, and I presume this is a detriment to overall brake performance. I have ridden ~8k km with this setup, but compared to my ultegra R8000 (?) calipers on my "road bike", their stopping power is lacking. And I don't do unnecessary risky descents.

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Old 12-03-22, 04:44 PM
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Aero brake levers are more powerful because they pull out not up. That's the difference you're looking for. Sad to say because old brake levers are cool. If your hoods aren't good it's a no brainer though.
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Old 12-03-22, 04:45 PM
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Another happy owner of Pauls here, but I have the touring cantilevers, instead of center-pulls. 👍

When I bought my Soma Saga (used), I actually wasn't familiar with that brand, but it had the Paul cantis on it. I'd heard many good things about Paul brakes, so took a "chance".😉 Needless to say, I was and still am happy with both. 😎
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Old 12-03-22, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Positron400 View Post
Thanks for your comment, that's great to know - I kind figured, that pauls were top of the line, but they are REALLY spendy (400 bucks for a pair). What type of center pull do you have? nut-mounted or braze-ons? Also what tyre with do you have and how's the clearance?
I run 32 Panaracer Gravelkings 700c with 45 mm SKS fenders.
I managed to pick up a nut-mounted set used but nearly new, so about 50% off retail. Iím running them with 32mm tires and fenders. Plenty of clearance.

I finished a recent build with braze-on Rene Herse/Compass centerpulls, and braking performance is excellent. I do need to solve their tendency to squeal, however.
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Old 12-03-22, 04:46 PM
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These look sweet and the performance is said to be excellent. Don't know that you need the long reach, but you may.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...g-reach-brakes

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Old 12-03-22, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I managed to pick up a nut-mounted set used but nearly new, so about 50% off retail. Iím running them with 32mm tires and fenders. Plenty of clearance.

I finished a recent build with braze-on Rene Herse/Compass centerpulls, and braking performance is excellent. I do need to solve their tendency to squeal, however.
toe em? The centerpulls i ride were absolute banshees until i set quite a lot of toe
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Old 12-03-22, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Soody View Post
Aero brake levers are more powerful because they pull out not up. That's the difference you're looking for. Sad to say because old brake levers are cool. If your hoods aren't good it's a no brainer though.
I had no idea, I thought them to be identical, just a different way of brake routing. Thanks! the more you know! So I guess I will switch to aero brake levers (Shimano 600) then, and give them a go, to gauge their brake performance. Still would want to use some centerpulls though because they look effin cool
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Old 12-03-22, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TugaDude View Post
These look sweet and the performance is said to be excellent. Don't know that you need the long reach, but you may.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...g-reach-brakes

Thanks for the suggestion, but i already have side pull caliper brakes in use. I was wondering about the center pull offerings
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Old 12-03-22, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Positron400 View Post
I had no idea, I thought them to be identical, just a different way of brake routing. Thanks! the more you know! So I guess I will switch to aero brake levers (Shimano 600) then, and give them a go, to gauge their brake performance. Still would want to use some centerpulls though because they look effin cool
haha yes. the coolest brake
I am biding my time and acquiring fancy parts to spec a bike around these badboys

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Old 12-03-22, 05:09 PM
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I believe that my Weinmann 610s with Mathouser pads from Porkchop BMX work better than the new DC 450s that I had for a while regardless of levers. I resold the 450s and put my BR-650s back on.
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Old 12-03-22, 05:10 PM
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WOW! Lots of great brake calipers pictured.

I have also used MAFACs and when compared to Paul center pulls, there's no comparison. Paul wins hands down. However, with that said, I do run aero levers with the Pauls and MAFAC levers with the MAFACs.
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Old 12-04-22, 05:40 PM
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I have a bike with Paul's Racer nutted satin silver brakes that I bought about ten years ago.

They work fantastic. I have them paired with some Cane Creek aero levers. I use 700c x 28 mm tires with 45 mm plastic fenders on that bike. Gobs and gobs and gobs of clearance. The fender edges are pretty much lined up between the pivots, so at the narrowest spot, and I have around 8 mm of clearance on each side, as I just measured.

I don't recall the reach, but on my Carlton I had been using some wrong-vintage sidepull Campagnolo brakes that could've used a few extra millimeters in the rear. I just didn't use them because it was my fixed gear bike. With the Paul's, the front brake pads are near the top of the slot and the rear are near the bottom. I imagine the bike originally had the two different reach Weinnmans that were common at the time.

What frame is that? I see you have the Pletscher style rear bridge but some fun looking headlugs.

I just found the invoice from almost 10 years ago direct from the manufacturer: $146 each. I had just moved to Silicon Valley and they were a present to myself. If I'd known that I'd be laid off within the month, I'd probably have used my Schwinn branded Weinmanns...
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