JulesCW 

“Bicycles are not built to be used as status symbols. The cyclist should ride his chosen bike, instead of bull-****ting about its angles or its chain stay length” — Albert Eisentraut, the conclusion ( p. 161 ) of his chapter 'The Frame' in Bike Tripping, by Tom Cuthbertson (1972). Asterisks inserted by BF forum software, obviously not in original...

I was re-reading that chapter today after spending time ogling the 1977 Eisentraut I recently acquired. This quote resonates -- I'm going to post it in my basement bike cave -- perhaps I need a t-shirt or a jersey with this on it?

kommisar

Isn't bull-****ting about seat tube angles and chain stay length what bike forums is all about?

seypat

Or you could just ride your bike. No need to put the quote on a t-shirt or jersey for others to see. Look at the bigger picture and take the quote to heart.

bikingshearer 

Make the t-shirt. Wear it at the coffee shop while sitting around bull****ing about your bike. See if anyone gets the irony.

TiHabanero

Bike Tripping is my all-time favorite bicycle related book. It is the book that took me from a kid with a bike to a kid with a touring bike. Just so happens to be I am re-reading that very chapter at this time. I never tire of the commentary, drawings and explanations.

bulgie 

Albert was also quoted somewhere, Bicycle Guide I think, to the effect that nobody should take up bike frame building if you think its going to get you laid.

To which I had to reply "well if it doesn't, then you're not doing it right!"

I met my wife when she came in to the frame shop where I worked, after a training ride with her racing team. She wouldn't have talked to me if I had been a lowly mechanic! That was 43 years ago, still married (and she still rides a lot more than I do.)

Mark B

RCMoeur

The impertinence of marrying above your station. Another sign of our decaying culture.

I learned the hard way dating withing the bike group typically ended badly, as nearly all of them left me for someone faster.

Met my wife in an e-chat back in the tantruming toddlerhood of the Internet. She'd never ridden a bike in her life when we met. Good news: no bad habits. 25+ years and thousands of miles later, alas her knees don't let her ride, but we have many happy rolling memories. And I keep her bikes maintained for when we can finally get her a set of decent replacement knees (even if we have to settle for SunRace instead of Campagnolo).

Bad Lag

That's the trick, isn't it?

How do you make a post about TODAY's ride on a C&V forum? How do you BS about the riding in a manner that is interesting and engaging for the readers?

If you have to stop and take pictures, you lose the riding. In addition, I ride the same roads every day, so where's the ongoing interest in that?

I ride for exercise, fresh air and sunshine. I don't ride to be a media specialist, influencer, Instagram star,...

Just ride! Riding is life.


P.S. - I've had my bike frame for almost 50 years. I wonder how many miles it has on it. :-)

HelpSingularity 

No, sometimes you get some good, solid information.

52telecaster

NEither my girl or me is fast but we met when she took a job where I bicycled to work. Her only transport was a Walmart bike. I gave her one of my inexpensive but solid builds. 6 years later we ride, camp, hike and live together.

Portland last summer.

52telecaster

NEither my girl or me is fast but we met when she took a job where I bicycled to work. Her only transport was a Walmart bike. I gave her one of my inexpensive but solid builds. 6 years later we ride, camp, hike and live together.

Portland last summer.

seypat

This is the problem with dating within a particular group setting. If it doesn't work out, one of you has to leave the group.

squirtdad

I am going to have to check this book out.....especially as the author wrote the classic 'eveybody's bike book" which was my go to book as a bike fascinated kid in the middle of montana

cudak888 

He's not wrong.

However...that's laughably hypocritical from someone whose specialty was to build custom frames with unbelievable fillets, through-the-top-tube cable routing, and wishbone seatstays. The very thing we love bull-****ing and obsessing about here at C&V.



-Kurt

P.S.: <voice="yelling>"NIVEX!"</voice><runaway=y></run>

JulesCW 

I imagine part of his statement might have come from him already getting tired of folks who wanted a custom frame built and thought that they knew more/better than he did... but yep, anti-status pedestrian frames is not exactly what he was/is known for

BFisher 

@cudak888, I was wondering if I was the only one who found that statement a bit ironic. Without the context of the rest of the book/chapter, I refrained from saying so. Outside of competitive cyclists, isn't that what a custom bicycle is, at least partially?

cudak888 

I think JulesCW did nail the fact that the statement needs to be within the context of those who obsess over the slightest geometry changes, believing it will make a night-and-day difference in their ride. Yes, I've definitely seen dilettantes freaking out at their framebuilder as if they knew better - such as whining over bottom bracket offset, while simultaneously requesting a short wheelbase - not giving a damn about futureproofing their chainring clearance, despite childbearing their 650Bs.

Still, given the stuff Eisentraut put out, it's a bit amusing. Had he also been assembling complete workhorses, like Doug Fattic's Ukranian utility bikes, I'd respect the claim a bit more on a general level.

One could say that there is purpose in a custom frame to fit some body types which are poorly suited to anything off the shelf, though when you think about it, this applies to very tall or shorter individuals, for the most part. When you consider the in between, there's rarely a practical excuse for a custom frame provided one has picked out the right size from an off-the-shelf build. An appropriate stem and bar can go a long way and be a lot cheaper.

-Kurt

squirtdad

Just to note, this thread just cost me 65 bucks. went online for a copy of Anybody's Bike book and ended up with that and a book on bread and another on pizza all for a 4 dollar used bike book

bbbob

The same Albert also claimed "artist" status, and occasionally put paint jobs on frames exceeding the value of the raw frame.
This was to differentiate himself from those thick skulled "frame builder" types. So Mr. practical modesty is actually other.

dgodave

Why cant we do both?

RCMoeur

They often didn't leave the group - just me.

I do recall at the wedding the "ex-girlfriends club" comprised a measurable part of the attendance (and energy).

polymorphself 

Not ********ting about chain stay length is fine and good until you're pissing yourself over a shimmy while descending a hill on a heavily loaded racing bike

hazetguy 

my favorite Eisentraut quote: "I wonder why you just don't grow up."

polymorphself 

Amazing. Now that's worth putting on a shirt.

52telecaster

The Bike forums effect!