I can probably assist with Suntour Winner family sprockets. Feel free to PM me if you are interested.

Thanks,
pastorbobnlnh
I've got to so some playing around with a gear calculator and figure out just what I need!

I don't think I've ever had an issue (knock on wood) getting the cogs off with 2 chain whips. I used a sprocket vise when I worked in a shop in the 80s/90s but I don't find the experience of taking it apart when the freewheel is on the wheel much, if any, worse. You can get good leverage and the wheel provides a nice stable platform.

Sorry, didn't mean for my rant/resurrection of the thread to initiate a whole re-litigation of how to dismantle the freewheel. I got both of them apart using one of the methods suggested earlier in the thread. The service board posted above by steelbikeguy is a fantastic aid and helped me catalog the cogs & spacers I've got, and put together one with a reasonably useful 13-30 range. But I really want a 13-32 for the bike with the crappy IRD junk currently on it, so I guess I'm shoppin' for some cogs....

Decades ago while I was road racing, I obtained an unusual wide spacing 6-speed winner freewheel with an 11t small cog. It was from the X position cog on the chart and screwed onto outboard threads of the second position double threaded E cog. The wide 6-speed E cogs only came as small as 14t so it had a massive 11/14 jump, probably intended for touring half-step gearing? I was able to modify the 11t slightly to transplant it onto a 13t new winner series 2nd position L cog and use it as a 11/13t jump 7-speed. This was long before cassettes or other freewheels offered small cog below 12t. The 11t cog was ridiculous to use for anything other than high-speed downhill, gearing was too tall for anything flat and the 11/13t jump was still too wide for an evenly spaced shift. Probably the only time I ever used the 11t setup was at the Tour of Gila stage race in NM which featured a time trial with a long & fast downhill section. At top of the hill, I shifted into the 11t, tucked low, and wound it out for couple of miles of downhill, made up time on everyone else that only had a 12t available.

Repeating myself, but it's interesting just how much better the Suntour freewheels feel than the others I've got. At least the Sunrace ones function and shift well, unlike the IRD. Yeah, I'm just pissed that I basically paid as much for the IRD freewheel and a couple additional as I did for a pair of wheels with Campy Record hubs that also had one of the Suntour NWN freewheels (OK, IRD stuff is overpriced, and I got a good deal on the wheels, but, still, y'know.?). Slightly diminished range, and 6 instead of 7, but the New Winner I put together is shifting much nicer than the IRD did, and is smooth spinning (at least on the stand- sub 20º and snowing, so a real road test might be a while). Eventually I'll try and completely take apart the IRD and see if it can be made workable, but for now I don't even want to look at it!

I have several suntour freewheels and they always feel good. Even the old 5 speed ones.

Most of the chain whips that can be sourced today have been designed only for the light-duty task of loosening cassette lockrings, and loosening a twisted-on freewheel cog was definitely not part of their design intent.
For use on freewheel cogs, look for long, thick steel handle and appropriate width chain for your particular cog spacing.

That's why they were named "Perfect." :D

Actually, for basically all of my 5-speed and 6-speed builds, I first try to use either the Perfect or ProCompe Suntour models. Why is that? Some might ask. Well several reasons.

First, the availability of sprockets in a wide range between 14T and 34T (and the occasional, yet rare 38T). In my case, I really don't need nor use a 12T or 13T. These models actually allow you to build a freewheel that starts with 14T to a 24T sprocket. The New Winner threaded sprockets fit in the first two positions. Last week I built a 15-17-19-21-24 ProCompe for my '71 Paramount.

Second, the pawls are robust and oversized. They fit into a machined pivot port and are pushed by a stout spring. I've serviced hundreds of Perfects and ProCompes and I've only had one pawl fail and it was on @jimmuller 's tandem. Yet, even with one failed pawl, the freewheel worked enough to allow Jim and Sharon to pedal home.

Third, while the two-notch removal system is rather basic and not as robust as the splined system on other freewheels, it is rare to see it fail or deform on the Perfect and ProCompe models. This cannot be said for the four-notch Winners and Winner Pro.

Here ends my Sunday morning freewheel sermon. :innocent:

Interesting stuff pastorbobnlnh ! It's a little unclear from velobase- do the Perfect and ProCompe freewheels predate the Winner? How do they relate in terms of model hierarchy? (not particularly important, just curious...).

Yes, they predate the Winners but production overlapped as well. The ProCompe was an upgrade to the Perfect with better bearings, polished races, and more precise machining. All their internal parts can be swapped.

The Winner family allowed the used of smaller high-geared sprockets, i.e. below 14T. The internal of a New Winner is basically a Perfect or ProCompe with the exception of the adjustable outer race.

I'm sorry that you've had problems with your IRD freewheel- but it's so validating because I hated the IRD that I had.

I also am less than enthusiastic about the IRD drilled brake levers.

Thanks to some cogs from pastorbobnlnh I've now got 2 very nice New Winner freewheels with great ranges (for me & my environs)!

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...288b5a383c.jpg
(the other one is already on a wheel....)

So, what sprocket tooth counts did you choose?

One is 13-15-17-20-24-30, the other is 13-15-18-21-26-32, both give me pretty nice half-step+granny ranges.

He's a pretty swell guy!!!

Reviving a slightly aged thread so I can page @pastorbobnlnh. During my lunch break I slipped a wheel from my PX10 on the Paramount, ostensibly to check clearances for a wider tire. Lo and behold the NR shifted happily onto the 34-tooth Perfect on the Peugeot wheel despite my initial challenge with the 28 I have on the P'mount wheel. Game changer for our Catskills roads! Will PM you to chat about what's possible for this setup...thanks.

Re: Chain whips

If you use clamps to tighten one down on a bench, you can devote all your attention to the whip doing the loosening.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...33d1a45147.jpg

This setup removed the sticking 2nd sprocket, and all the rest.
Park Tool SR-2.3 Chain Whip + scaffolding pole + 4 M6 bolts


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8736167fb8.jpg

"The Persuader"

They are doing some building work on the house next door, they are almost finished so tidying up.
They see me walk past most days so I just asked and got the scaffolding pole for free :)

So far it's

• Scaffolding pole:3
• Sticky freewheel: 0

I'm impressed that the chain whip hasn't blown up under all of that stress! I suspect that their engineers weren't planning on this sort of use. :)

Steve in Peoria (I've got a cheater bar bolted to one of my chain whips)

I did bend my cheap "Draper" chain whip, but that was by hand.
It's made of 4mm thick metal of some kind.

The Park Tool one is over twice the price but it's advertised as a 'shop tool'.
The head is 4mm thick metal, the handle is 1" diameter tube and 10" long.

It's possible using a long cheater bar puts less twist on the chain whip, but I suspect the Park Tool
one is made of harder metal for 'shop' conditions.

The handle on my cheap second-string chain whip is definitely more flexible than on the Park tool. But the couple of times I've had a chain whip fail, it's from one of the link plates bending and the pin letting go.