Claude Butler Mistral
01-01-23, 01:46 PM
#1
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked 1,984 Times
in
1,324 Posts
Claude Butler Mistral
Is this a rebadged Holdsworth Mistral or something different? Curious about it.
Gipiemme drops?
Nicely rounded and brazed fork tip...
Interestingly loooong point lugs
Pretty standard stay attachment and barrel brake bridge
No decaling but a CB headbadge
Gipiemme drops?
Nicely rounded and brazed fork tip...
Interestingly loooong point lugs
Pretty standard stay attachment and barrel brake bridge
No decaling but a CB headbadge
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
Likes For jdawginsc:
01-01-23, 02:13 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 12,673
Mentioned: 369 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3178 Post(s)
Liked 2,037 Times
in
1,424 Posts
-----
far too late to be a Claud Claud so clearly a Holdsworthy product
lug pattern NERVEX Professional
bottom bracket shell BOCAMA Professional
fork crown Vagner DP
date estimate 1973
for far more and better information make a visit to the Kilgariff site -
https://nkilgariff.com/
-----
far too late to be a Claud Claud so clearly a Holdsworthy product
lug pattern NERVEX Professional
bottom bracket shell BOCAMA Professional
fork crown Vagner DP
date estimate 1973
for far more and better information make a visit to the Kilgariff site -
https://nkilgariff.com/
-----
01-01-23, 02:55 PM
#3
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked 1,984 Times
in
1,324 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela
-----
far too late to be a Claud Claud so clearly a Holdsworthy product
lug pattern NERVEX Professional
bottom bracket shell BOCAMA Professional
fork crown Vagner DP
date estimate 1973
for far more and better information make a visit to the Kilgariff site -
https://nkilgariff.com/
-----
far too late to be a Claud Claud so clearly a Holdsworthy product
lug pattern NERVEX Professional
bottom bracket shell BOCAMA Professional
fork crown Vagner DP
date estimate 1973
for far more and better information make a visit to the Kilgariff site -
https://nkilgariff.com/
-----
It’s odd because the frames of that era seemed to have the side of top tube guide while this has no cable guides at all.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
01-01-23, 03:50 PM
#5
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked 1,984 Times
in
1,324 Posts
Originally Posted by polymorphself
Didn't all Mistral's have front eyelets?
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
01-02-23, 04:13 PM
#6
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,807
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 566 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1886 Post(s)
Liked 476 Times
in
295 Posts
Where is the serial number?
There is a thread on this forum, on Holdsworth serial numbers. If your frame fits the pattern, it's probably a Holdsworth product, but if it doesn't, it could still be a Holdsworth.
There is a thread on this forum, on Holdsworth serial numbers. If your frame fits the pattern, it's probably a Holdsworth product, but if it doesn't, it could still be a Holdsworth.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
Likes For rhm:
01-02-23, 04:48 PM
#7
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked 1,984 Times
in
1,324 Posts
Originally Posted by rhm
Where is the serial number?
There is a thread on this forum, on Holdsworth serial numbers. If your frame fits the pattern, it's probably a Holdsworth product, but if it doesn't, it could still be a Holdsworth.
There is a thread on this forum, on Holdsworth serial numbers. If your frame fits the pattern, it's probably a Holdsworth product, but if it doesn't, it could still be a Holdsworth.
it’s a quality frame, but not sure if it’s worth it.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
01-02-23, 10:21 PM
#8
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,352
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1180 Post(s)
Liked 722 Times
in
561 Posts
Serial Numbers, before you buy: this has so many things that are atypical of a Holdsworthy Claude Butler, AFIAK, but with the Campy Portacatena DOs we know it has to be post 1978, and it has Campy ends.
Does it have full 531 DB or tre-tubi and is that decal (in a ODD place for a Holdsworth-y) original?
I think not a bad price for a gamble but without establishing provenance I'd like to gamble on LESS if my own $$!
This could be an interesting mystery...
Does it have full 531 DB or tre-tubi and is that decal (in a ODD place for a Holdsworth-y) original?
I think not a bad price for a gamble but without establishing provenance I'd like to gamble on LESS if my own $$!
This could be an interesting mystery...
01-03-23, 09:46 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 12,673
Mentioned: 369 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3178 Post(s)
Liked 2,037 Times
in
1,424 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1
Serial Numbers, before you buy: this has so many things that are atypical of a Holdsworthy Claude Butler, AFIAK, but with the Campy Portacatena DOs we know it has to be post 1978, and it has Campy ends.
Does it have full 531 DB or tre-tubi and is that decal (in a ODD place for a Holdsworth-y) original?
I think not a bad price for a gamble but without establishing provenance I'd like to gamble on LESS if my own $$!
This could be an interesting mystery...
Does it have full 531 DB or tre-tubi and is that decal (in a ODD place for a Holdsworth-y) original?
I think not a bad price for a gamble but without establishing provenance I'd like to gamble on LESS if my own $$!
This could be an interesting mystery...
poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME
see no provision for portacatena
-----
01-03-23, 12:12 PM
#10
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked 1,984 Times
in
1,324 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela
-----
poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME
see no provision for portacatena
-----
poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME
see no provision for portacatena
-----
But without top tube brake cable guides, I think it is more likely early to mid 70s.
Thats my lesser educated guess...
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
01-03-23, 01:37 PM
#11
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,352
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1180 Post(s)
Liked 722 Times
in
561 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela
-----
poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME
see no provision for portacatena
-----
poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME
see no provision for portacatena
-----
Which makes this even less likely to be a Holdsworthy product since they were still the official importer of Campagnolo even when this frame would have been built (or so I'd assume).
Plus never saw another Holdsworthy marque that used such (Nervex Professional) lugs as juvela has ID'd these.
I think it's something else, no "Claude Butler Mistral", but interesting and might be a good deal if you could both positively ID it and reduce the price accordingly.
01-03-23, 04:42 PM
#12
framebuilder
Originally Posted by unworthy1
correct and serves me right for trying to discern details on a cellphone screen, now that I have my computer you are of course correct: GPM ends.
Which makes this even less likely to be a Holdsworthy product since they were still the official importer of Campagnolo even when this frame would have been built (or so I'd assume).
Plus never saw another Holdsworthy marque that used such (Nervex Professional) lugs as juvela has ID'd these.
I think it's something else, no "Claude Butler Mistral", but interesting and might be a good deal if you could both positively ID it and reduce the price accordingly.
Which makes this even less likely to be a Holdsworthy product since they were still the official importer of Campagnolo even when this frame would have been built (or so I'd assume).
Plus never saw another Holdsworthy marque that used such (Nervex Professional) lugs as juvela has ID'd these.
I think it's something else, no "Claude Butler Mistral", but interesting and might be a good deal if you could both positively ID it and reduce the price accordingly.
A couple of years ago I bought a book on the History of the Haden company being sold by one of the decedents.
Likes For Doug Fattic:
01-03-23, 07:32 PM
#13
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 5,772
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked 1,984 Times
in
1,324 Posts
The mystery thickens. I almost want to buy it to figure it out...almost.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, 1996ish Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe (most not finished of course), 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba...I...am...done....
