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Claude Butler Mistral

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Claude Butler Mistral

Old 01-01-23, 01:46 PM
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Claude Butler Mistral

Is this a rebadged Holdsworth Mistral or something different? Curious about it.


Gipiemme drops?

Nicely rounded and brazed fork tip...

Interestingly loooong point lugs

Pretty standard stay attachment and barrel brake bridge

No decaling but a CB headbadge
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Old 01-01-23, 02:13 PM
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-----

far too late to be a Claud Claud so clearly a Holdsworthy product

lug pattern NERVEX Professional

bottom bracket shell BOCAMA Professional

fork crown Vagner DP

date estimate 1973

for far more and better information make a visit to the Kilgariff site -

​​​​​​https://nkilgariff.com/


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Old 01-01-23, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
-----

far too late to be a Claud Claud so clearly a Holdsworthy product

lug pattern NERVEX Professional

bottom bracket shell BOCAMA Professional

fork crown Vagner DP

date estimate 1973

for far more and better information make a visit to the Kilgariff site -

​​​​​​https://nkilgariff.com/


-----
Very cool site and very encyclopedic. I did not see any ďClaudeĒ or Holdsworth frame that resembled the one pictured...perhaps sourced out?

Itís odd because the frames of that era seemed to have the side of top tube guide while this has no cable guides at all.
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Old 01-01-23, 03:38 PM
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Didn't all Mistral's have front eyelets?
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Old 01-01-23, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself
Didn't all Mistral's have front eyelets?
Another weird thing about the frame. Tough to tell what it exactly is...the Holdsworth Mistral was presumably sport/touring but this is the CB version.
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Old 01-02-23, 04:13 PM
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Where is the serial number?

There is a thread on this forum, on Holdsworth serial numbers. If your frame fits the pattern, it's probably a Holdsworth product, but if it doesn't, it could still be a Holdsworth.
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Old 01-02-23, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm
Where is the serial number?

There is a thread on this forum, on Holdsworth serial numbers. If your frame fits the pattern, it's probably a Holdsworth product, but if it doesn't, it could still be a Holdsworth.
Unfortunately it is in UK with the seller, who wants 80 pounds or about $160 shipped, so I wanted to see what you guys might know.

itís a quality frame, but not sure if itís worth it.
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Old 01-02-23, 10:21 PM
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Serial Numbers, before you buy: this has so many things that are atypical of a Holdsworthy Claude Butler, AFIAK, but with the Campy Portacatena DOs we know it has to be post 1978, and it has Campy ends.
Does it have full 531 DB or tre-tubi and is that decal (in a ODD place for a Holdsworth-y) original?
I think not a bad price for a gamble but without establishing provenance I'd like to gamble on LESS if my own $$!
This could be an interesting mystery...
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Old 01-03-23, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
Serial Numbers, before you buy: this has so many things that are atypical of a Holdsworthy Claude Butler, AFIAK, but with the Campy Portacatena DOs we know it has to be post 1978, and it has Campy ends.
Does it have full 531 DB or tre-tubi and is that decal (in a ODD place for a Holdsworth-y) original?
I think not a bad price for a gamble but without establishing provenance I'd like to gamble on LESS if my own $$!
This could be an interesting mystery...
-----



poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME

see no provision for portacatena


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Old 01-03-23, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
-----



poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME

see no provision for portacatena


-----
Front fork ends are definitely Gipiemme. Tough to make out the rear drops.

But without top tube brake cable guides, I think it is more likely early to mid 70s.

Thats my lesser educated guess...
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Old 01-03-23, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
-----



poster writes that ends set is GIPIEMME

see no provision for portacatena


-----
correct and serves me right for trying to discern details on a cellphone screen, now that I have my computer you are of course correct: GPM ends.
Which makes this even less likely to be a Holdsworthy product since they were still the official importer of Campagnolo even when this frame would have been built (or so I'd assume).
Plus never saw another Holdsworthy marque that used such (Nervex Professional) lugs as juvela has ID'd these.
I think it's something else, no "Claude Butler Mistral", but interesting and might be a good deal if you could both positively ID it and reduce the price accordingly.
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Old 01-03-23, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
correct and serves me right for trying to discern details on a cellphone screen, now that I have my computer you are of course correct: GPM ends.
Which makes this even less likely to be a Holdsworthy product since they were still the official importer of Campagnolo even when this frame would have been built (or so I'd assume).
Plus never saw another Holdsworthy marque that used such (Nervex Professional) lugs as juvela has ID'd these.
I think it's something else, no "Claude Butler Mistral", but interesting and might be a good deal if you could both positively ID it and reduce the price accordingly.
The lugs on this frame were made by Haden. They were a British company. Long spearpoint lugs went out of style when investment cast lugs became popular after the mid 70ís. It was necessary for IC lugs to have short points because the molten steel would have issues if it had to flow too far. My wife made a frame for herself under my guidance using those Haden long point lugs.

A couple of years ago I bought a book on the History of the Haden company being sold by one of the decedents.
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Old 01-03-23, 07:32 PM
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The mystery thickens. I almost want to buy it to figure it out...almost.
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