Sweaty 1950s? Cinelli info
01-06-23, 07:04 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,042
Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Liked 755 Times
in
580 Posts
It is my understanding that the Cinelli front office (accounting/operations) told the frame builder what serial number should be stamped on the bottom bracket. The framebuilder did what they were told. One would think that management would follow some standard GAAP procedures but in the case of Cinelli, that was not the case in general. Many serial numbers out of sequence for various reasons, reasons we may never nail down.
Cozze whynot, capiche?
No one can figure out and fake if only they knew, if the numbers mean anything.
konakai you are one lucky b*************ikeforums member... congrats! I would strangle for such a bike
Last edited by Lattz; 01-06-23 at 07:08 PM.
Likes For Lattz:
01-06-23, 07:14 PM
#27
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 178
Bikes: 40 Automoto, 58 Cinelli B, 62 Cinelli B Altenberger, 70 Cinelli SC, 71 Witcomb, 76 Masi GC, 80 Jack Taylor Tourist, 78 Ritchey Road, 82 Davidson Touring, 83 Palo Alto, 85 Ironman, 90 Colnago Master, LeMond Zurich, Peter Johnson, Bianchi 928
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times
in
79 Posts
This is a quote from Mark Petry, smart and knowledgeable guy on Cinelli and serial numbers.
"What we don't know is how long bikes or subassemblies hung on the hook before being shipped from Milan. The multiple ranges of serial numbers suggests to me at least that there were multiple subcontractors assembling frames for Cinelli. When orders came in, frames came off the hook or were ordered from the subs. So it's really hard to know "when it was made" and guesses based on the derailleur date stamp or other tells are speculative. "
Just sharing another thought as to why serial numbers are this way...
"What we don't know is how long bikes or subassemblies hung on the hook before being shipped from Milan. The multiple ranges of serial numbers suggests to me at least that there were multiple subcontractors assembling frames for Cinelli. When orders came in, frames came off the hook or were ordered from the subs. So it's really hard to know "when it was made" and guesses based on the derailleur date stamp or other tells are speculative. "
Just sharing another thought as to why serial numbers are this way...
Likes For cinelliguy:
01-07-23, 11:34 AM
#28
Full Member
Those frogs appear smitten with your Cinelli, perhaps the color has something to do with that.
The frogs have good taste, nice bike!
The frogs have good taste, nice bike!
01-07-23, 04:20 PM
#30
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 178
Bikes: 40 Automoto, 58 Cinelli B, 62 Cinelli B Altenberger, 70 Cinelli SC, 71 Witcomb, 76 Masi GC, 80 Jack Taylor Tourist, 78 Ritchey Road, 82 Davidson Touring, 83 Palo Alto, 85 Ironman, 90 Colnago Master, LeMond Zurich, Peter Johnson, Bianchi 928
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times
in
79 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Another question. Are the dropouts Simplex or Campagnolo?
campagnolo
Cinelli started phasing out the Simplex dropouts after the introduction of the Campagnolo Gran Sport derailleur in 1953. So, 1953 +
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Another question. Are the dropouts Simplex or Campagnolo?
campagnolo
Cinelli started phasing out the Simplex dropouts after the introduction of the Campagnolo Gran Sport derailleur in 1953. So, 1953 +
01-07-23, 05:56 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,908 Times
in
1,160 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Another question. Are the dropouts Simplex or Campagnolo?
campagnolo
Cinelli started phasing out the Simplex dropouts after the introduction of the Campagnolo Gran Sport derailleur in 1953. So, 1953 +
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Another question. Are the dropouts Simplex or Campagnolo?
campagnolo
Cinelli started phasing out the Simplex dropouts after the introduction of the Campagnolo Gran Sport derailleur in 1953. So, 1953 +
01-07-23, 06:08 PM
#32
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 178
Bikes: 40 Automoto, 58 Cinelli B, 62 Cinelli B Altenberger, 70 Cinelli SC, 71 Witcomb, 76 Masi GC, 80 Jack Taylor Tourist, 78 Ritchey Road, 82 Davidson Touring, 83 Palo Alto, 85 Ironman, 90 Colnago Master, LeMond Zurich, Peter Johnson, Bianchi 928
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times
in
79 Posts
I concur. I have requested additional images from the owner. Not received them yet. My comment about the Campagnolo dropout branding was an attempt to baseline no older than 1953. I own a restored 56/58 with Simplex dropout and with the lozenge logo. The restoration was "supposedly" a duplication of what was originally on the bike decal wise.
01-07-23, 07:49 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,534
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2820 Post(s)
Liked 1,918 Times
in
1,396 Posts
It is my understanding that the Cinelli front office (accounting/operations) told the frame builder what serial number should be stamped on the bottom bracket. The framebuilder did what they were told. One would think that management would follow some standard GAAP procedures but in the case of Cinelli, that was not the case in general. Many serial numbers out of sequence for various reasons, reasons we may never nail down.
Likes For repechage:
01-08-23, 01:15 PM
#34
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I concur. I have requested additional images from the owner. Not received them yet. My comment about the Campagnolo dropout branding was an attempt to baseline no older than 1953. I own a restored 56/58 with Simplex dropout and with the lozenge logo. The restoration was "supposedly" a duplication of what was originally on the bike decal wise.
Likes For konakai:
01-08-23, 01:55 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 13,051
Mentioned: 378 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3311 Post(s)
Liked 2,287 Times
in
1,588 Posts
-----
here is a somewhat clearer transfer as seen on this Clement wood rim which is contemporaneous with the cycle's dural ones -
-----
here is a somewhat clearer transfer as seen on this Clement wood rim which is contemporaneous with the cycle's dural ones -
-----
01-08-23, 02:06 PM
#36
Junior Member
Thread Starter
sweaty by my definition, just means as found, a little or a lot crusty, with patina thats hard to duplicate. an old bike buddy said that to me years ago, i knew exactly what he meant. of course what's one person's sweaty or crusty is another's trainwreck. do I wish this bike was in better condition...sure but I appreciate that it survived. will i restore or repaint the bike...no.kind of like people some of us have some hard miles on us and low upkeep. there i said it i like sweaty bikes
01-08-23, 02:34 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,908 Times
in
1,160 Posts
Personally, I'd just clean & lube the bike, get a proper stem & bars and call it a day.
Likes For iab:
01-09-23, 12:15 PM
#38
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,001
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 683 Post(s)
Liked 1,317 Times
in
625 Posts
In this photo, I can't read what the top sticker/decal says due to the combination of wear and glare. Can you read it? I bet it says "Mod. B" or "Model B" but I can't be sure. (A Super Corsa or Speciale Corsa would say "Mod S.C.")
Thanks for all the extra photos, BTW. It means more drool on my t-shirt, but it's the price one must pay to gaze upon such wonderfulness.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
Likes For bikingshearer:
Likes For chain_whipped:
01-11-23, 04:33 AM
#40
Paramount Fan
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vermont
Posts: 194
Bikes: Paramounts, Raleigh Pros, Colnago, DeRosa, Gios, Masis, Pinarello, R. Sachs, Look, D. Moulton, Witcomb, Motobecane, Bianchis, Fat City, Frejus, Follis, Waterford, Litespeed, d'Autremont, others, mostly '70s-'80s
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times
in
90 Posts
Faded Glory
sweaty by my definition, just means as found, a little or a lot crusty, with patina thats hard to duplicate. an old bike buddy said that to me years ago, i knew exactly what he meant. of course what's one person's sweaty or crusty is another's trainwreck. do I wish this bike was in better condition...sure but I appreciate that it survived. will i restore or repaint the bike...no.kind of like people some of us have some hard miles on us and low upkeep. there i said it i like sweaty bikes
Those cranks look right to me, just what I would expect on a Mod. B from this vintage. Congratulations on a fantastic score. It is exactly what many of us hope to find as we scan Craigslist ads.
Likes For sbarner:
01-11-23, 08:24 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 3,586
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2146 Post(s)
Liked 1,746 Times
in
1,064 Posts
An amazing bike, congratulations on a solid score!
If it was to go into a museum, I'd keep it as is. If it's a bike I plan to ride, I would do a full restoration, and get that thing back to looking like it did the day it left the factory. I hate "patina" (also known as dirt, rust, wear and tear) on rideable bikes.
If it was to go into a museum, I'd keep it as is. If it's a bike I plan to ride, I would do a full restoration, and get that thing back to looking like it did the day it left the factory. I hate "patina" (also known as dirt, rust, wear and tear) on rideable bikes.
01-11-23, 10:01 AM
#42
Junior Member
Thread Starter
An amazing bike, congratulations on a solid score!
If it was to go into a museum, I'd keep it as is. If it's a bike I plan to ride, I would do a full restoration, and get that thing back to looking like it did the day it left the factory. I hate "patina" (also known as dirt, rust, wear and tear) on rideable bikes.
If it was to go into a museum, I'd keep it as is. If it's a bike I plan to ride, I would do a full restoration, and get that thing back to looking like it did the day it left the factory. I hate "patina" (also known as dirt, rust, wear and tear) on rideable bikes.
Likes For konakai:
01-11-23, 01:36 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 12,501
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3934 Post(s)
Liked 4,894 Times
in
2,865 Posts
thanks, glad you like the bike. as I said earlier what one person's I won't use the word sweaty...patina is anothers trainwreck. i would never restore this bike, to me it would lose its character. you hate patina, while i dont hate restored bikes, I appreciate the beauty of a well done restoration, it's just not my thing. I realize some bikes are too far gone, and the only way up is a restore. I appreciate these battle scarred beauties that show their character and sometimes unfortunately abuse
When they wear it well as this one truly does, its a rolling testament to its journey and can only be preserved as is at this place and time.
So long as keeping it as is does no harm it can live on until something dictates more drastic action.
Likes For merziac:
01-11-23, 01:50 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 3,586
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2146 Post(s)
Liked 1,746 Times
in
1,064 Posts
thanks, glad you like the bike. as I said earlier what one person's I won't use the word sweaty...patina is anothers trainwreck. i would never restore this bike, to me it would lose its character. you hate patina, while i dont hate restored bikes, I appreciate the beauty of a well done restoration, it's just not my thing. I realize some bikes are too far gone, and the only way up is a restore. I appreciate these battle scarred beauties that show their character and sometimes unfortunately abuse
01-11-23, 04:00 PM
#45
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 178
Bikes: 40 Automoto, 58 Cinelli B, 62 Cinelli B Altenberger, 70 Cinelli SC, 71 Witcomb, 76 Masi GC, 80 Jack Taylor Tourist, 78 Ritchey Road, 82 Davidson Touring, 83 Palo Alto, 85 Ironman, 90 Colnago Master, LeMond Zurich, Peter Johnson, Bianchi 928
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times
in
79 Posts
Guy Apple
Redwood City CA
Likes For cinelliguy:
01-11-23, 07:23 PM
#46
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times
in
99 Posts
But I suspect that to most cyclists "sweaty" is how they'd describe a bike that's spent years on a turbo trainer, so corroded along the top tube and surrounding area.
01-19-23, 12:32 AM
#47
Junior Member
Great find, can't wait to see it cleaned up.
01-19-23, 08:47 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,990
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 952 Post(s)
Liked 1,333 Times
in
758 Posts
At sometime I would like to make a set of burnables. I have all the tools, some jigs would needed for clamping, rounding, and drilling. Charles over at Wright Bros. has a set wooden, I haven't taken a real close look. Charles says they were manufactured with finger board joinery. If I were construct I would probably go with Pecan, or hard maple, a very stable stock would be required.
01-19-23, 08:48 AM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 8,038
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1834 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times
in
438 Posts
Gah I'm jealous. I generally don't like patina either but this one will clean up nice enough and, as they say, it's only original once.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
02-02-23, 04:26 PM
#50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
cleaned up the chrome a bit, switched bars, stem and brake levers. now it's got that I won't say sweaty, as found look
