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Miyata 210 frame same as 610? And what to expect.

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Miyata 210 frame same as 610? And what to expect.

Old 01-19-23, 12:08 PM
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Miyata 210 frame same as 610? And what to expect.

I'm picking up a single owner, apparent garage queen 1986 210 today as my next project. It won't need much but I'll be swapping a few things and kitting it out for a touring partner to make use of.

Was the 210 frame of this era the same as the 610? My assumption is the materials and geometry are the same, just that the 210 is lacking the extra bottle cage mount.

I see "sport tourer" thrown around a lot for these frames as the chain stays are a bit shorter than typical tourers of the time, but they are still long. Does anybody have an idea of what one could expect with the ride quality when loaded? Front load handling?

Thanks!
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Old 01-19-23, 12:44 PM
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FWIW, the catalog does say that the 610 uses 700c wheels while the 210 uses 27"
But enough minutiae! Let's see the bike!
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Old 01-19-23, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
FWIW, the catalog does say that the 610 uses 700c wheels while the 210 uses 27"
But enough minutiae! Let's see the bike!
Not in my hands yet but should be by this evening! Good call on the wheel differences, I've got a nice set of 700s I'll probably drop in, seems the brakes should reach. Also likely means the two frames are different geometry and perhaps the 610 and the 1000 are the ones that are the same (minus the forks).

Last edited by polymorphself; 01-19-23 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 01-19-23, 03:12 PM
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I had one for a summer or two - I think it was an '84. I never loaded it for touring, but between water bottles, front and rear rack and bags. had to have added 20 or so lbs to it. It handled pretty much the same with those things or without. It was very stable. This meant it was not nimble. I've since gotten an '81 1000 for my wife. THAT handles more responsively when empty than the 210 did. Haven't loaded the 1000 up to give a report on it.
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Old 01-19-23, 04:45 PM
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The 210 got cantilever brakes later than the others, I believe. Also, the 210 may have never gotten mid-blade fork eyelets for low-rider front racks. These features, which are in my mind essential, trickled down the Miyata product line from the 1000 to the 610 to the 210, sometime in the '80s IIRC.

I don't know about tubing, but I would welcome any knowledge!

I also think the Miyata tourers are pretty much the same as (and I believe were made in the same factory as) the Univega tourers (e.g. Specialissima, Gran Turismo). The Univegas are usually sold at a lower price point because fewer people know what they've got.
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Old 01-19-23, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by scarlson
The 210 got cantilever brakes later than the others, I believe. Also, the 210 may have never gotten mid-blade fork eyelets for low-rider front racks. These features, which are in my mind essential, trickled down the Miyata product line from the 1000 to the 610 to the 210, sometime in the '80s IIRC.

I don't know about tubing, but I would welcome any knowledge!

I also think the Miyata tourers are pretty much the same as (and I believe were made in the same factory as) the Univega tourers (e.g. Specialissima, Gran Turismo). The Univegas are usually sold at a lower price point because fewer people know what they've got.
Its true the 210 never received mid fork mounts, although the 610 also didn't have them until the end of the 80s, and then lost them again in the early 90s, so not much difference there. And correct, this model has cantis, I believe the 210s received them around 1984, and certainly by 1985. So no difference there either. A campeur-type rack should do find if front panniers are needed, though I'm still curious about front loading experiences.
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Old 01-19-23, 08:36 PM
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Seems the 210 had Dia-compe 960 brakes, Not sure, but they may not work too well when converting to 700c.

Last edited by John Nolan; 01-20-23 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself
Its true the 210 never received mid fork mounts, although the 610 also didn't have them until the end of the 80s, and then lost them again in the early 90s, so not much difference there. And correct, this model has cantis, I believe the 210s received them around 1984, and certainly by 1985. So no difference there either. A campeur-type rack should do find if front panniers are needed, though I'm still curious about front loading experiences.
I have an ‘89 618 GT and it lacks mid fork braze ons. It also has single eyelets and no threaded adjusters on the rear dropouts.

Miyata must have really been feeling the heat on the yen price by then and going cheap on seemingly minor details to compensate.
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Old 01-19-23, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself
Was the 210 frame of this era the same as the 610?
Based on the '86 catalog, I think the 610 has the nicer rear triangle.
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Old 01-20-23, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by C9H13N
I have an ‘89 618 GT and it lacks mid fork braze ons. It also has single eyelets and no threaded adjusters on the rear dropouts.

Miyata must have really been feeling the heat on the yen price by then and going cheap on seemingly minor details to compensate.
The single eyelets is especially surprising there.
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Old 01-20-23, 06:04 PM
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I guess I am the only owner of a 210 here, in fact I have two of them. The frame isn't the same as a 610, the 1000 and 610 share the splined quad butted tubing with the main difference being the gruppo used and maybe a bottle cage. The 210 has a triple butted frame the fork doesn't have mid level braze ons and would need canti rack. I run my 210 with a hanging handlebar bag and use the rear rack and large saddle bag. I don't ride the bike loaded for tour but around 40lb. load with one mid-size pannier. I use it for gravel/dirt rail trail/ two track and road and it handles dodging cobbles and branches with quickness but it is stable ride and I can century on it and feel ok the next day. As the french say "it carries a tired rider well". I run the bike stock with the original wheels and I have Kenda K 161 27"x1" 3/8" tires and fenders, I love all the Miyata touring bikes I have a mint 615 GT and restored two 1000s you can't beat them.
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Old 01-20-23, 06:14 PM
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I recall the 210 and 1000 having slacker (72 versus 73 degrees) frame angles than the steeper Six-Ten. I have both 210 and 610 in the same ~58cm frame size and can feel the difference, both using 10cm stems and 27" wheels.
The 210 feels smaller because the top tube and head tube are moved rearward by .9cm relative to the BB (due to the shallower ST angle).
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Old 01-20-23, 06:38 PM
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I bought a stripped down 610 a couple years ago from a member here, not sure of the year. It has 3 bottle cage mounts and mid fork mounts and is built for 27" wheels. This past year I was fortunate enough to find a 210 mixte complete. I intend to transfer everything to the 610 . The colors are similar and the decals and frame tubing are exactly the same. Based on the clamp on DT shifters that were left on the 610, the component package was also the same.
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Old 01-20-23, 10:05 PM
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Thanks for the input everyone, any additional commentary is welcome. I’m very excited to dig into this. It’s in great shape but will get the typical overhaul, clean/polish, burgundy newbaums, black b17 and either a canti rack or campeur type rack up front.

It’s really strange how glancing at this bicycle one simultaneously notices both the budget choices and the high quality here. I can’t think of another bike that is so very much both.

Some quick pics as found:










Last edited by polymorphself; 01-20-23 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 01-21-23, 08:43 AM
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Wow. That is shockingly clean. Great find. I had an 83 610 that I loved, I only sold it because I found an 82 710 that I converted to 650b that I loved more. For me, these 80’s Miyatas are just about perfect. Yours looks like a real winner.
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Old 01-23-23, 12:12 PM
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Seat post clamp crack or just paint? How do we feel about this?


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Old 01-23-23, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself
Seat post clamp crack or just paint? How do we feel about this?


That looks like a real crack to me. But you can scrape off the peeling paint and check to make sure
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Old 01-23-23, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
That looks like a real crack to me. But you can scrape off the peeling paint and check to make sure
Will do that shortly. If it turns out to be a crack, what are we talking about structurally here? I assume the fear would be it spreading to the actual seat tube? Or a potential for the seat post to randomly drop if the clamp gives out?

I do have a relationship with a local frame-builder. Worst case I imagine this would be a quick job for him.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:05 PM
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My bet is crack in the paint from tightening over the years. I worked on a 210 mixte for a niece once and was impressed how nice it was made. Nice bike you have there.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself
I have a pair of those shift levers, new old stock. I bought them on clearance from Nashbar many years ago. I should to put them on a bike, but I just haven't found the right one yet.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sd5782
My bet is crack in the paint from tightening over the years. I worked on a 210 mixte for a niece once and was impressed how nice it was made. Nice bike you have there.
Here's hoping! And yep, as we always say all over these forums, Miyatas punched above their weight, especially from 1984-1989!
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Old 01-23-23, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Pompiere
I have a pair of those shift levers, new old stock. I bought them on clearance from Nashbar many years ago. I should to put them on a bike, but I just haven't found the right one yet.
I like them, they are also on my 86 Voyageur, though not clamp on.
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Old 01-23-23, 02:24 PM
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Almost certainly not a crack, though I would check that the ear isn't bent in far enough to create any sharp seatpost scraper feature on the inside of the tube.

For tilted-inward lug ears, I insert the post about 1" in and then lean rearward to restore the opening and to perhaps(?) bring the ears back to where there is better parallelism at the bolt heads.

Pretty normal to see on steel frames, I would not start scraping paint, it will come off in big flakes making a cosmetic blemish on your nice frame.
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Old 01-23-23, 03:36 PM
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Are those Shimano ratcheting shifters? I have several Suntour ones but have never tried the Shimano. Wasn’t there also a nicely equipped Miyata 215GT in the eighties? It seems like I saw one posted, or saw in the catalogs and was impressed with it also.
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Old 01-23-23, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd
Almost certainly not a crack, though I would check that the ear isn't bent in far enough to create any sharp seatpost scraper feature on the inside of the tube.

For tilted-inward lug ears, I insert the post about 1" in and then lean rearward to restore the opening and to perhaps(?) bring the ears back to where there is better parallelism at the bolt heads.

Pretty normal to see on steel frames, I would not start scraping paint, it will come off in big flakes making a cosmetic blemish on your nice frame.
Thank you. They aren't bent in at all actually. No signs of any over adjustment aside from the two marks/lines in the photos.
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