Andy_K 

I've got a Mercian frame that needs new paint, and I'd love to send it back to Mercian. I looked into shipping costs, and Bike Flights says they'll need to charge me around $200 for "Duties, Taxes & Fees". This seems wrong to me since the frame is just going back to the factory for service and then will be shipped back to me. What sort of duties and taxes are involved with that?

I've got another frame that I'm trying to sell and I received an inquiry from someone in Austria. Again, $200 is "Duties, Taxes & Fees" from Bike Flights. I can see some amount of duty or tax in this case (though it seems ridiculous for an old bike frame). In this case, with the fees the cost of shipping is more than I'm asking for the frame.

Is there any cheaper way to do this?

iab 

The government doesn't know, or care, what you are doing to your frame. It only sees it as something being imported into their country which is subject to a tax.

evwxxx

Maybe try to go direct to fedex or dhl or whomever and see what they say for cost. Seems like there are a few ebay sellers in Italy and perhaps other countries who are selling and shipping to the US for reasonable shipping costs, so not sure how bike flights figures these costs,,,,perhaps it is an United Kingdom thing?

Lattz

I was working in freight forwarding for half of my time, so maybe can give you a hint here. First, general sites give you "raw" costs assuming you send something there and it stays there.
While I'm not an expert of US customs, I'm sure, your country and GB as well knows "temporary export", otherwise neither the industry, nor exhibitions could work.

In simple, temporary export means, you export the cargo and make a "promise" to the authorities that it will be brought back (with normal export no one would bat an eye, but here it matters, since eventually you might want to get it back without paying VAT and duty when it arrives back) and on the other side in GB, the receiver makes the same promise to the GB customs auth. that they receive a cargo which will be temporarily imported, but will leave the country, this will grant them a carnet under which your bike frame can stay in GB for a certain period of time without the need to be imported (here export and import both refers to customs and tax procedures, not physical send out/bring in movement), therefore tax and duty free as long as it is ensured that it leaves GB by the given deadline.

A quick google search for "temporary export from the US" led me to this MIT site, they have contact details if you want to go that way, but I guess it is just easier to contact DHL, DB Schenker, Kühne&Nagel, or any other bigger forwarder close to you who can help you to plan everything from A to Z to back to A. DB Schenker has an office in Hilsboro, Kühne&Nagel has 2 offices in Portland as well, and DHL has 1 (make sure you are talking to DHL Global Forwarding, not DHL Express).

EDIT: removed links to google maps, as it falls back to the ones around my city

Hope these help.

Lattz

merziac

The recent Strawberry that came home from New Orleans was almost $200 just for shipping, BikeFlights sent me a note and a survey so I had a cordial back and forth with them about pricing.

They gave me all the blah, blah, blah about cutting the box down and making it as light as possible which I had no control over since the shipping bike shop wouldn't engage and I have had every bike or frame that was packed in a cut down box damaged for that strategy so.... BS.

They are caught in the middle with UPS having a stranglehold on it and no sense of humor so they can't/won't give an inch and have to cover their azz at all times no matter what.

Mostly the only game in town, take it or leave it.

There are alternatives but they seem to be hard to access to get any substantial savings and any special wrangling on the shipping end can't normally be controlled.

Mr. Spadoni 

On the Mercian, somewhere in your documents for customs, you need the phrase” UK goods returning for repair” . The fame is a product of the UK, is going back to its maker, and duties should not be charged.
On the bike to OZ, yeah, duty does need to be paid, unless the bike came from there.
That said, give the folks at Shipbikes a call. 1-708-383-2433. I’ve shipped bikes domestically with them and they were cheaper than BF. I started using them after I tried to ship a bike internationally and they would not take my money. They spent an hour on the phone explaining the potential problems I’d encounter, all of which were plausible, based on my experience shipping other items and my experience with Italian customs. When someone won’t take my money, I tend to pat attention. BF pointed out none of these things, they just wanted a credit card number.

gugie 

As I often say at my day job, "there's no logic to bureacracy."

nlerner

Unfortunately, ship.bikes is only selling cardboard boxes now; they’ve gotten out of the shipping biz: https://www.shipbikes.com

merziac

Like I said, BFlights, only game in town.

Spaghetti Legs 

Well for Austria, I might suggest a visit to Vienna and pack the frame in your suitcase.

Sorry, don’t have much more to offer than that except maybe look into pirate ship. It’s a good service but can’t remember if I’ve shipped a package as large as a bike with them.

Mr. Spadoni 

Dang. That’s too bad.

BMC_Kid

Tell me, how exactly do you pack a frame in your suitcase? Is this one of those clown bikes?

I work and live in Bahrain. I just returned from the holidays in Texas. I brought back a frame with me that I packed in a frame box and was still considered oversize. Normally would have been charged for it but I fly Emirates and they are really good with me and allow it as one of my checked bags because it is just barely over the limit. Lufthansa on the other hand is a nightmare to deal with.

Andrew_G

I really don't see the point (other than nostalgia) for shipping your frameset back to the UK for repaint. There are many USA painters who can do a superb job of painting.

Replacement decals can be obtained by the painter from several sources.

For repaints, I personally would trust a framebuilder first. They know how to handle the steel properly. Sources I'll recommend (no particular preference):

1). https://www.facebook.com/franklinframe/ I haven't used them but I know of several guys who have had multiple frames painted by them, with excellent results. I've read that framebuilder Jack Turnbull is a highly competent framebuilder in many types of bicycles.
2) https://cyclesmiths.net Painter Jim Allen used to paint Masi Gran Criterium frames BITD. The paint on my 2017 Della Santa is thin, crisp and tight.
3) I'm really impressed with the work done by framebuilder Jeffrey Bock in Ames IA. He also does repainting.

There are others. See the attached map below. I have no idea as to its accuracy, but my semi-local painter Joe Bell gave it to me last year and said it was a good reference. BTW, Joe Bell has a 1+ year backlog.

iab 

I have very successfully used USPS shipping to Italy. I can't imagine a problem using them for the UK.

Andy_K 

Thanks! This is all very helpful. I haven't probed far enough to verify this, but I think it's the UK charging the duty, not the US. My understanding is that the US is relatively random in our duty rules (there are still distinctions made on the duty for cottered cranks versus non-cottered) but for the most part non-business shipments tend to go through without much problem. I'd guess that the cost of enforcing any rule would exceed the revenue.

In any event, if I decide to ship to the UK, I'll look into "temporary export" and try one of the shipping companies you recommended.

FWIW, I did contact Mercian about this, and they didn't have any suggestions. They also thought the fees were coming from the US side of things.

Andy_K 

Believe it or not, I think if I can get shipping costs lower it will be cheaper to have Mercian do it. I got a quote from Black Magic in Portland and it was more than double what it would cost to send it to Mercian, including the shipping even with the duty costs, even though Black Magic is local to me and I could just drive it over. I really wanted to use them, but they're way over my budget.

I had Jeff Bock paint a bike for me a few years ago, and it came out beautiful. I thought his prices were pretty good at the time, but it was still in the neighborhood of what shipping to Mercian would cost me. I have tried to contact Jeff via his Facebook page, but didn't get a response. I seem to recall it was easier to contact him by phone. I'll try that at some point.

BTW, that map is very cool. Thanks for sharing!

VintageSteelEU

This is why I avoid buying anything in the US. An item that costs around 20 bucks (an actual asking price for an item) in the US ends up costing me around 70 green ones on this side of the pond. Whatever the reason. And since the UK decided to impose economic sanctions on itself leaving the EU, prices of items bought from the EU are affected by additional VAT as well as a significant hike in postage costs. I don't recall buying many items from the US ever before getting into classic and vintage bicycles, so I don't know if it was always like that or if it's a new things. But yeah, 200 USD for shipping is ridiculous. You might want to look into some slower mode of transportation for the frame perhaps?

Mr. Spadoni 

+1 on using USPS for shipping , especially to the UK.
As duty is only charged by the county to which the item is being imported, a quick search on the uk.gov site points to a form that can be used to get an item being repaired into the UK duty free.
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fi...orm%204455.pdf
Coming back? Yeah, you could be charged duty for the repair but likely you will be overlooked. But never expect that Customs will act in a cost effective manner. I once spent a hour waiting for an customs agent to decide that I owed a dollar and ten cents for a dutiable item. I would, however, make sure you note the serial number of your frame on your export docs so that when it comes back, you have proof that it was in the US in the past. Wouldn’t want to have to pay duty on the whole frame if you run into a Customs agent who’s having a bad day.

Lattz

First and foremost @iab 's + Mr. Spadoni 's suggestion with normal post is also a good option, although kind of luck-based. Contacting forwarder also has up and downsides. On the positive they do this for a living so know the ins and outs of the process on both ends and thanks to their network can ask the other side before causing surprises and extra charges to anybody which means ultimately you. On the contrary, you are a private person not a company, this (and given the frames declared value) might simplify things to zero (low value goods without customs involvement at all) but can complicate them as well (eg they might ask you for prepayment). I only know the process of one of the big ones and even that in one European country only but asking doesn't cost you anything. For unbiased opinion purely on the customs part the MIT sounds better since they are not interested to make a business with you.
Keep in mind, that you don't have to use the forwarders for the full fun. You can order only customs brokerage from them as well. Basically the risk you are taking with this whole thing is the same as a customs officer would tell you at the airport to explain the bike frame in your checked baggage, I mean to prove you didn't bring here to sell it, and if you have a biker-minded officer, he knows its not just some old crap. I personally don't think that you would run into problems - you're not sending for gold plating, yeah? .

Lattz

Andy_K check out this other thread, which happens to be about Mercian, but they mention US customs regulations for import..
Mercian website

looks like you are safe from duties upto USD800,- value

iab 

Registered mail has tracking and requires a signature (although covid have laxed those rules a bit). But I never have lost a registered package. No luck involved. (knock on wood - )

gugie 

That's a great map, thanks for posting! I started and try to maintain a thread on powder coaters, do you mind if I post your map there as a reference for wet painters? I'd make sure and give you attribution.

Lattz

Oh I only meant the customs part, not if post would lose it or not. But even customs involvement is unlikely given it is a personal, low value item, not a Lotus bike encrusted in gemstones. Still, independent from who and how will move the frames, asking someone knowledgeable about customs is never a bad idea. At best case it might not apply (as said in my first post the shipping calculators work based on the assumption that the bike is a commercial product sold to destination since price-wise thats the worst case scenario. )

nlerner

Hmm, a round trip plane ticket plus baggage fees would get your frame there plus,you’ll get a trip to the UK out of it. Perhaps your employer can send you for some “consulting”?

Andrew_G

Mark:

Use the map as you see fit. I don't need any attribution; the credit should go to Joe Bell.

BTW, I vaguely recall first seeing the map on Classic Rendezvous before I got a copy of it from JB. My copy of the map is dated January 24, 2021. If you're so inclined, so you can search on CR to see where the map first originated from. I'm not on CR anymore, so I can't assist in the origination search.

regards,

Andrew G.