Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

When did Cromovelato become a thing?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

When did Cromovelato become a thing?

Old 02-13-23, 02:23 PM
  #26  
Erzulis Boat
3rd Grade Dropout
 
Erzulis Boat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Barbara Calif.
Posts: 1,673
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times in 207 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
House of Kolor still sells their line of Kandy Kolor including 2-pack (2K) polyurethane paints.
I never sprayed any over chrome plating but...with ANY 2K paint do yourself the favor of using proper protective gear!

My guess is all urethane paint will be more durable than any lacquer, but as for adhesion? Dunno.

There are also transparent powder coats available, also have no person experience with any over chrome. If you think that could be both more durable as well as better adhering to chrome, find a local PC shop that can show you some examples.
If anybody here has used PC to make a "cromovelato" effect, please let us know your results

Clear powdercoat over raw steel on a BMX bike in the collection. Yikes, I just realized that I have a lot of bikes.
Erzulis Boat is offline  
Likes For Erzulis Boat:
Old 02-13-23, 02:32 PM
  #27  
Mr. Spadoni 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 779
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times in 159 Posts
When did a thing becoming a thing become a thing?
Mr. Spadoni is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 02:47 PM
  #28  
fabiofarelli
Senior Member
 
fabiofarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 615

Bikes: Especialy Alan, but also Empella, Cascarsi, Gazelle, Bianchi, CJV, Sirocco, Berkers etcetera

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 874 Times in 313 Posts
I remember several cromovelato iracing bikes in the mid sixties. In the Netherlands. Often J.Anquetil.
fabiofarelli is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 02:51 PM
  #29  
fabiofarelli
Senior Member
 
fabiofarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 615

Bikes: Especialy Alan, but also Empella, Cascarsi, Gazelle, Bianchi, CJV, Sirocco, Berkers etcetera

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 874 Times in 313 Posts
I remember several cromovelato racing bikes in the mid sixties. In the Netherlands. Often J.Anquetil.
fabiofarelli is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 03:15 PM
  #30  
Lattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,035

Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 578 Posts
Cromovelato is definitely magic. But like with many things when its nice it's really nice, and when it's not it's really not.
Solid or metallic paints, including even the sibling flamboyant cheaper-velato are aging gradually with a nice patina. CV not.
It is going from Wow to "what a pity" with the first flake. No Dust or matte clear coat to hide or at lest soften up scars to give it an "it is still nice if not nicer" feeling.
And if you have a high end frame, the "it is original once" problem multiplies as well. Smaller damages are a pain to the eye, but thinking about a respray is also a PIA. I was struggling with this on my Bianchi and while it was not CV, but was flaking like it was, exposing a bright chrome underneath, which magnified all problems.
Here are two examples from SOMEC:
ETOE is bada55, but I also like this (and the others, not to mention the bikes!!!) ittle explainer:




While this does not look "that bad", if it was a daily rider it would be a matter of weeks to get rid of the rest at this stage.

In an interview Mario Maritini explained, that since SOMEC gave him almost free hands on how to paint the frames, they sent everything properly chromed, so he had to matte up the frame for painting.

Last edited by Lattz; 02-13-23 at 03:19 PM.
Lattz is offline  
Likes For Lattz:
Old 02-14-23, 08:43 AM
  #31  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,154
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 627 Times in 415 Posts
Wasn't the AD Vent Noir also a Chromovelato bike?Through the years I heard prople describe the finsh on them as "Black Chrome", but I suspected it was just a paint tint over chrome = Chromovelato.....
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 02-14-23, 10:15 AM
  #32  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,979
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Liked 1,319 Times in 752 Posts
Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
Wasn't the AD Vent Noir also a Chromovelato bike?Through the years I heard prople describe the finsh on them as "Black Chrome", but I suspected it was just a paint tint over chrome = Chromovelato.....
Yes some Vent Noir were chromovelato.

I think some of the Schwinn High Sierra are also.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Old 02-14-23, 11:57 AM
  #33  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,468
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1232 Post(s)
Liked 767 Times in 595 Posts
there were two iterations of A-D Vent Noir, one had normal "satin" black paint but on those that had the "black tinted chrome plating" most called "smoked chrome" I'm not sure how many were given a tinted transparent topcoat (which would be "cromovelato" but maybe there's a German term?) and how many did actually have coloring added to the chrome (if any).
I certainly have not seen them all.

Scuttlebutt also had it that A-D/Puch/Steyer used what is called "hard chrome" which is the type used for such plated pieces as motorcycle fork tubes.
Does "scuttlebutt" know?
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 02-14-23, 08:45 PM
  #34  
Writenride 
Malcontent
 
Writenride's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 99

Bikes: I honestly don't know...

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 32 Posts
Look, I don't care what anyone says; Cromovelato is sexy!
Writenride is offline  
Likes For Writenride:
Old 02-14-23, 08:59 PM
  #35  
Lattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,035

Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 578 Posts
There was also Pnarello Montello, where they called it chromonero, implying, that the chrome plating itself is black, although I think its a smoked chromovelato, not long ago someone popped up here with one, but since his was not flaking (yet), it cant be confirmed what it is.
Besed on these photos, it looks more like a lacquer than a pure dark chrome..... anyhow,,, BADA55....




But if I could get and afford a "strictly wall hanger only" bike, a red would do as well...
Lattz is offline  
Old 02-14-23, 09:02 PM
  #36  
Lattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,035

Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 578 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
Yes some Vent Noir were chromovelato.

I think some of the Schwinn High Sierra are also.

Aaaand PUCH Mistral Vent Noir
Lattz is offline  
Old 02-14-23, 11:19 PM
  #37  
BMC_Kid
Full Member
 
BMC_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by Lattz View Post
There was also Pnarello Montello, where they called it chromonero, implying, that the chrome plating itself is black, although I think its a smoked chromovelato, not long ago someone popped up here with one, but since his was not flaking (yet), it cant be confirmed what it is.]
I can confirm that Pinarello's Cromonero color is a true cromovelato; a tinted clear lacquer finish over bright silver chromed tubing. After 30+ years, the color has faded to more of a dark grey color when under bright light.

Hereís mine out in the bright sun.






and inside


Edit: By the way, the Montello handles beautifully. Nice steel frame that is so stable and tracks like it is on rails. I put a set of 28mm tires on it to give it a little more plushness but after riding it for a few weeks now, I think I will take them off and put on a set of 25mm Conti GP5000s and those Pirelli tires on something else. That should give a bit more aggressiveness while still being able to provide the cushiness I was looking for. Looking forward to putting some miles on it this spring.

Last edited by BMC_Kid; 02-15-23 at 09:17 AM.
BMC_Kid is offline  
Likes For BMC_Kid:
Old 02-15-23, 12:25 PM
  #38  
Robvolz 
guy with punchable face
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 878

Bikes: several Eddy Merz (ride like Eddy, braze like Jim!)

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked 511 Times in 229 Posts
wow, and on the seat post too
__________________
Waiting for the campy 100 ani groupset.
Robvolz is offline  
Old 02-15-23, 02:01 PM
  #39  
BMC_Kid
Full Member
 
BMC_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by Robvolz View Post
wow, and on the seat post too
Matching stem as well, both on the rare side. I believe the matching stem and seat post were only available in the Cromovelato Cromonero finish.
BMC_Kid is offline  
Old 02-15-23, 02:21 PM
  #40  
Lattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,035

Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 578 Posts
Originally Posted by BMC_Kid View Post
Matching stem as well, both on the rare side. I believe the matching stem and seat post were only available in the Cromovelato Cromonero finish.
It is a marvellous bike, congrats! Both setups are cool.
Lattz is offline  
Old 02-16-23, 09:11 AM
  #41  
big chainring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wilmette, IL
Posts: 7,246
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked 629 Times in 309 Posts
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
Just for the sake of enjoying some of the cromovelato joy, here's a 1981 Raleigh Superbe that Mr. Bingham displayed at the 2016 Classic Rendezvous event. Note that this Superbe is named for the SunTour Superbe components, and is very much unlike the earlier Superbe roadster.







Can you imagine how good it would look in sunlight?!

Steve in Peoria
Spring of 1980 I purchased a Superbe frame from a local bike shop. A customer had ordered it for the parts group and I, having just crashed an old Raleigh Competition, bought the frame and built it up with my Campy NR components. The bike gathered many looks and comments..."Is that gold plated"?...

The finish was durable for the first couple years I owned it but by 1984 it was looking a little worn. No paint chipping, but the finish was wearing thin on the sides of the top tube and along the fork blades. Perhaps the wear was accelerated by road salt as I commuted on the bike one Chicago winter. By 1984 the bike looked a little shabby. Decided to take some lacquer thinner to it and remove the gold. Very quickly I had a chrome frame that was in excellent condition. Even around the bottom bracket the chrome was fully polished.

As to when chromovelta became popular I was looking at a frame on German ebay a few years ago... a Rabenieck from 1958. The finish was black, yellow and red chromovelta...german national colors. It was all chipped up with a lot of chrome showing thru but still a looker. Price was a little crazy and shipping was a no go.

As for my Superbe I held onto it for almost 30 years. Sold it around 2010 for the price I paid originally...$200.
big chainring is online now  
Likes For big chainring:
Old 03-26-23, 05:41 PM
  #42  
curiousabe
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 12 Posts
If you wanted to achive similair results on a stainless steel frame would the process be the same?
curiousabe is offline  
Old 03-26-23, 10:37 PM
  #43  
Ktodd
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 14

Bikes: PXN-10LE, Bridestone RB1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
One Hit Wonder Paints

Originally Posted by rancho66 View Post
Just watched that ETOE video. He has all the items to get it done. Not too difficult, but getting the proper cromoveloto primer, tint, and hardeners could be costly. I have one of those gold Raleigh Superbe frames that could use a new gold coat. Needs decals too so definitely not something I will ever get around to.

I was looking at a chrome tandem Univega on Ebay back when I first posted on this thread (way over priced) and was considering attempting a cromovelato paint job on it but I lost interest in the bike. I haven't tried it but "One Hit Wonder Paints" sells lacquers they market as "intercoats". Basically transparent tinted paint used as a middle coat in-between base coat and clear coat. Supposed to enhance metallic lacquer base paints. I don't know if this would work as a base paint for chrome... what is intriguing about the possible usd of OHWP is that it supposed to NOT need primer to adhere to so I'm guessing it's self etching somehow? So I don't know if this would work in making a cromovelato look over actual chrome but this does have the same effect over lacquer paint. Worth looking into more and maybe giving it a go.
Ktodd is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 05:05 AM
  #44  
rancho66
Rancho66
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 8 Posts
I checked out the One Hit Wonder Paints site. Interesting products for sure. Unfortunately, the Intercoat paint requires a "scuffing" of the substrate/base, Like most/all paints. I hesitate in scuffing good chrome as it cannot be "unscuffed." The price for the intercoat paint is reasonable though!
rancho66 is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 07:25 AM
  #45  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,559

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1724 Post(s)
Liked 580 Times in 435 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

it goes back at least to the 1950's - would expect significantly further - when seen on marques such as Ideor

some of the cycles shown in thread thus far have flambouyant finishes rather than chromovelato

in flambouyants a metallic base coat goes down on top of the primer and before the colour

the most common colour for the base coat is silver but copper and gold are also sometimes employed

another name for what is termed chromovelato in the past was chrom-o-lux

would think that our iab would be able to tell us how far back goes the finish...

some of the flashiest of the modern era are done by Wilier Tristina


-----
I totally agree it went back into the '50's. I think my 1952 Rudge Aero Special has a flambuoyant finish, though I don't recall it having been called-out in the factory and advertising literature preserved by Peter Kohler in his "on-the-drops.blogspot" blog.

This bike was a Nottingham product, built on the same line with the same parts list as the Raleigh Super Lenton. It that year they were the top models in the spirit of the "Club"-style of product. The next year they opened up again to take orders for custom Raleigh Record Aces. So if I'm correct that it has the flambuoyant finish, it was top of the line so it should have had the fanciest paint job!

In perusing the Kohler collection, I didn't see if such finishes were used in previous model years, and he informs us of products reaching back into the 1920s, including drop-bar bikes. The coal-furnace black finishes were greatly in-evidence.

I wonder how many Brits of the day lost their black bikes, misplacing it in the basement?



Rudge Aero Special more or less as received.

Headbadge is a winner!

Real live Reynolds!
Road Fan is offline  
Likes For Road Fan:
Old 03-28-23, 01:45 PM
  #46  
Ktodd
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 14

Bikes: PXN-10LE, Bridestone RB1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Painting next week

Originally Posted by rancho66 View Post
I checked out the One Hit Wonder Paints site. Interesting products for sure. Unfortunately, the Intercoat paint requires a "scuffing" of the substrate/base, Like most/all paints. I hesitate in scuffing good chrome as it cannot be "unscuffed." The price for the intercoat paint is reasonable though!

I just bought their metallic lime green and brite blue base coats. I'll start spraying some frames in the next couple-few weeks when the weather warms up just a little. I live in an apt. but bought an inflatable paint booth made for motorcycles off Amazon and an air compressor and buncha air paint equipment from Harbor Freight ...also some airbrush equipment for detail work. I've done some small airbrushing before but this will be my first attempt at bike frames. I have 2 Peugeot Super Comps. 4 varying trek frames from the 80's, 1 Olmo, 1 CBT, 1 Chesini, 1 Bianchi, 2 Bridgstone RB1s, 1 RB2, 2 klein Quantums, 1 klein Stage and a few others.

My only issue right now is sourcing good quality Decals/Water Slides since Velocals went out of business.
Ktodd is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 01:57 PM
  #47  
Ktodd
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 14

Bikes: PXN-10LE, Bridestone RB1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rancho66 View Post
I checked out the One Hit Wonder Paints site. Interesting products for sure. Unfortunately, the Intercoat paint requires a "scuffing" of the substrate/base, Like most/all paints. I hesitate in scuffing good chrome as it cannot be "unscuffed." The price for the intercoat paint is reasonable though!
Yeah, I was going to find an old car bumber or something else chromed to practice on first. I forget what the instructional videos say what grit sandpaper to use to "scuff" with.

I think you could get a somewhat similar effect with just using a metallic silver base coat or even chrome paint maybe (but most of those suck) and OHWP intercoat. Of course not as good as an actual Cromovelato but kinda similar.
Ktodd is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 02:17 PM
  #48  
Lattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,035

Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 578 Posts
Originally Posted by Ktodd View Post
Yeah, I was going to find an old car bumber or something else chromed to practice on first. I forget what the instructional videos say what grit sandpaper to use to "scuff" with.

I think you could get a somewhat similar effect with just using a metallic silver base coat or even chrome paint maybe (but most of those suck) and OHWP intercoat. Of course not as good as an actual Cromovelato but kinda similar.
The metallic silver base is a different art called "flamboyant", which is also nice, especially if you ditch plain silver paints and get yourself something really shiny. If you know e.g. Gretsch guitars you know what I mean. Bitd they were made with metallic powder of flakes. Forget scuffing the base chrome, the colored clear will emphasize every glitch, actually that's what made cromovelato the option for the higher end bikes or higher class painters. With any regular paintjob scuffing is your friend, so is base coat, which covers errors. But with cromovelato, all the tiny details must be mirror polished, which is a lot easier in a bike factory with 9 tubes than at home with an assembled frame.

Last edited by Lattz; 03-28-23 at 02:20 PM.
Lattz is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 02:23 PM
  #49  
Lattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,035

Bikes: 80s Alan Super Record, 79' Somec Special, 90s Rossin(?) Columbus Ego Triathlon, previously: Bianchi SBX Reparto Corse (stolen) and so on...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 578 Posts
Originally Posted by curiousabe View Post
If you wanted to achive similair results on a stainless steel frame would the process be the same?
I guess since that can be mirror polished and is shiny already, it could be sprayed directly with the tinted clear, but there are plenty of good advises against clearing raw metal, no matter if stainless or not.
In industrial circumstances, they can make it happen but at home, it is hard to avoid to lock in humidity or dust.
Lattz is offline  
Old 03-28-23, 02:35 PM
  #50  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,002
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 849 Post(s)
Liked 1,300 Times in 461 Posts
I've never seen anything to suggest that typical Nottingham-built Raleigh production bicycles in the early-'50s had with lacquer over chrome 'flamboyant" finishes (the common term for the style used in Britain at the time), but companies making custom frames such as Claud Butler, Carlton and Hetchins were certainly offering them. As early as 1947 the Raleigh Record Ace was offered with a range of finish options including "polychromatic," which may have been the same idea. However, after years of looking at them I've never seen an example of a Record Ace or an R.R.A. Moderne which had anything that appeared like a flamboyant lacquer over chrome finish.

The 1950 Carlton Continental I owned is an example with a catalogue-specified flamboyant paint scheme which is very distinctive from enamels. I'll also post an example of a beautiful 1951 Hetchins Magnum Opus which can be seen in greater detail here:

Hetchins MO full chrome 1951

Cheers!

-Gregory




Last edited by Kilroy1988; 03-28-23 at 03:01 PM.
Kilroy1988 is offline  
Likes For Kilroy1988:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.