Mounting under-BB-shell plastic guides
03-07-23, 10:24 AM
#1
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Mounting under-BB-shell plastic guides
On a bike where I think I should resort to passing shift cables under the shell, I keep seeing references to "Shimano Bottom Bracket Cable Guide SM-SP17" or equivalent: LINK But I see some come with no hardware, some come with a sheet metal screw (ugh!) and there are references to an M5 bolt. In some instances I've read of an insert that goes inside the shell (I presume designed to stay clear of bearing cups, etc.) And electing a particular model # during searches does not ensure a purchase means one will get anything other than no hardware or the sheet metal screw. OK, time to "make it right". I would imagine am M5 button-head bolt is not all that hard to find (of course, I'll end up with a bag of 25, and thus 24 left over 
). So (a) what would the insert look like, is it possible to make one; I'd presume a nut is too small so now we're talking a scrap of metal shaped to fit, and then drilled/tapped, or (b) isn't the BB shell thick enough to drill and tap directly? Or, of course, if someone else makes a better one...
). So (a) what would the insert look like, is it possible to make one; I'd presume a nut is too small so now we're talking a scrap of metal shaped to fit, and then drilled/tapped, or (b) isn't the BB shell thick enough to drill and tap directly? Or, of course, if someone else makes a better one...
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Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
03-07-23, 10:34 AM
#2
Lost
BB shell is beefy enough to drill and tap, no problem. All the big box stores carry metric hardware in stainless steel, just go down to the local HD or Lowes and pick up a couple.
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03-07-23, 10:53 AM
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It’s possible to get lucky and not even need a guide. I tried that on my Super Course, but it didn’t work out. So I drilled and tapped a hole. I was using a cartridge BB, and my bolt was too long, interfering with the BB. So I had to carefully cut the bolt down. Overall, it was pretty involved, but it worked out.
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03-07-23, 11:02 AM
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Drill a hole and use a self tapping screw. I did it on an old Giant and it never gave me any problems. Use a thread lock or grease on the screw when you put it in to stay. Screws can be had individually at any hardware store (Ace, etc.) I got the plastic guide off the bay for >buck. The screw cost more because I went stainless. Good luck,
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03-07-23, 11:11 AM
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As others suggested, drill and tap. On my alu CAAD4, PO torn the piece out leaving a martian crater where the orig screw holes were, I drilled a small hole size of a needle just to guide and let a wood screw to make itself comfy.
Barbarian as hell, but it works, actually it just has to keep thing laterally stabile, since the cables are anyway holding it, but its strong engough anyway. No epoxy/etc.. was used.
Barbarian as hell, but it works, actually it just has to keep thing laterally stabile, since the cables are anyway holding it, but its strong engough anyway. No epoxy/etc.. was used.
03-07-23, 12:19 PM
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I buy mine from framebuildersupply.com. I do a lot of framework, so I order them 10 at a time. They sell them for $0.95 each, 10 for $8. They come with a screw. If you lose the screw, most any M5 screw will work just fine. Length is only critical if you're using a cartridge sealed bottom bracket, as you don't want the screw to hit the sleeve on the BB, so choose your length wisely.
Easy drill and tap into the bottom bracket, which are typically mild steel, as others have noted.
One thing to check, if you have a brazed on cable stop on the chain stay, make sure it's on the bottom of the stay. If it's braze onto the top you can't use one. It may seem obvious, but I've done stupider things in the past.
Easy drill and tap into the bottom bracket, which are typically mild steel, as others have noted.
One thing to check, if you have a brazed on cable stop on the chain stay, make sure it's on the bottom of the stay. If it's braze onto the top you can't use one. It may seem obvious, but I've done stupider things in the past.
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Last edited by gugie; 03-07-23 at 12:25 PM.
03-07-23, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AngryScientist
BB shell is beefy enough to drill and tap, no problem. All the big box stores carry metric hardware in stainless steel, just go down to the local HD or Lowes and pick up a couple.
Originally Posted by Lattz
As others suggested, drill and tap. On my alu CAAD4, PO torn the piece out leaving a martian crater where the orig screw holes were
It hurts to read that.
Originally Posted by Lattz
I drilled a small hole size of a needle just to guide and let a wood screw to make itself comfy.
Originally Posted by gugie
I buy mine from framebuildersupply.com. They come with a screw. If you lose the screw, most any M5 screw will work just fine. Length is only critical if you're using a cartridge sealed bottom bracket, as you don't want the screw to hit the sleeve on the BB, so choose your length wisely. Easy drill and tap into the bottom bracket, which are typically mild steel.
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03-07-23, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Thanks, I'll look that one over and decide which I like best. (Black versus blue? Why can't I get red?) That one comes with a bolt whose head is that combination straight-slot/Phillips head that I think of as "Japanese screw" and I have an aversion... and no idea why.
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03-07-23, 01:03 PM
#9
Lost
whatever you put down there, make it stainless. Thats the wettest part of the bike and steel screws get rusty fast down there.
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03-07-23, 01:12 PM
#10
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+1 on drill and tap.
Successfully completed on a 1973 Jeunet and a 1986 Peugeot PSN-10. The Peugeot already had a hole for the rivet so just needed tapping. Removed the rivet because a) I hate rivets and b) needed her completely stripped for the painter
Use an appropriate length stainless button head screw.
Successfully completed on a 1973 Jeunet and a 1986 Peugeot PSN-10. The Peugeot already had a hole for the rivet so just needed tapping. Removed the rivet because a) I hate rivets and b) needed her completely stripped for the painter
Use an appropriate length stainless button head screw.
03-07-23, 01:27 PM
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I like using threads, some BB shells have a plain hole cause the original plastic guide came with a "split plug" similar to a lot of automotive fittings for trim and shields (that typically fail, but that's another rant). If it's "missing" threads I add them, not trusting "self-tapping" screws or sheet-metal or wood threads.
YMMV
I find I almost always need to trim the length of the (always SS) bolt or machine screw, but I'm used to doing that.
I've found many Shimano guides came in purple (as well as black or blue) and always a bit mystified as to what the "other hole" was for: I always use the one that fits road bike shells (68 or 70mm) and cannot figure out why the second, unless for a VERY wide Mtn bike shell?
YMMV
I find I almost always need to trim the length of the (always SS) bolt or machine screw, but I'm used to doing that.
I've found many Shimano guides came in purple (as well as black or blue) and always a bit mystified as to what the "other hole" was for: I always use the one that fits road bike shells (68 or 70mm) and cannot figure out why the second, unless for a VERY wide Mtn bike shell?
03-07-23, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Once you install it, you don't see it. The screw works just fine, don't overthink it!
Originally Posted by AngryScientist
whatever you put down there, make it stainless. Thats the wettest part of the bike and steel screws get rusty fast down there.
Originally Posted by OldForerunner
+1 on drill and tap. Successfully completed on a 1973 Jeunet and a 1986 Peugeot PSN-10. The Peugeot already had a hole for the rivet so just needed tapping. Removed the rivet because a) I hate rivets and b) needed her completely stripped for the painter Use an appropriate length stainless button head screw.
Originally Posted by unworthy1
I like using threads, some BB shells have a plain hole cause the original plastic guide came with a "split plug" similar to a lot of automotive fittings for trim and shields (that typically fail, but that's another rant). If it's "missing" threads I add them, not trusting "self-tapping" screws or sheet-metal or wood threads.
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03-07-23, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Which begs the question, is the supplied screw stainless?
Yeah, both a metal rivet and a plastic split-rivet are non-starters for me.
Yeah, both a metal rivet and a plastic split-rivet are non-starters for me.
Yeah, pretty rusty! But it's lasted 8 years with no issues. M5 stainless screws aren't rare, though. Pan or button head would be preferrable, but most anything will work.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Last edited by gugie; 03-07-23 at 02:14 PM.
03-07-23, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
On a bike where I think I should resort to passing shift cables under the shell, I keep seeing references to "Shimano Bottom Bracket Cable Guide SM-SP17" or equivalent: LINK But I see some come with no hardware, some come with a sheet metal screw (ugh!) and there are references to an M5 bolt. In some instances I've read of an insert that goes inside the shell (I presume designed to stay clear of bearing cups, etc.) And electing a particular model # during searches does not ensure a purchase means one will get anything other than no hardware or the sheet metal screw. OK, time to "make it right". I would imagine am M5 button-head bolt is not all that hard to find (of course, I'll end up with a bag of 25, and thus 24 left over ). So (a) what would the insert look like, is it possible to make one; I'd presume a nut is too small so now we're talking a scrap of metal shaped to fit, and then drilled/tapped, or (b) isn't the BB shell thick enough to drill and tap directly? Or, of course, if someone else makes a better one...
). So (a) what would the insert look like, is it possible to make one; I'd presume a nut is too small so now we're talking a scrap of metal shaped to fit, and then drilled/tapped, or (b) isn't the BB shell thick enough to drill and tap directly? Or, of course, if someone else makes a better one...
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Last edited by seedsbelize2; 03-07-23 at 08:01 PM.
03-07-23, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Huh, never bothered to check! Luckily I rode my 8 year old 650b conversion "Big Red" into work today, reached under and took a crappy pic:
Yeah, pretty rusty! But it's lasted 8 years with no issues. M5 stainless screws aren't rare, though. Pan or button head would be preferrable, but most anything will work.
Yeah, pretty rusty! But it's lasted 8 years with no issues. M5 stainless screws aren't rare, though. Pan or button head would be preferrable, but most anything will work.
03-07-23, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
One thing to check, if you have a brazed on cable stop on the chain stay, make sure it's on the bottom of the stay. If it's braze onto the top you can't use one. It may seem obvious, but I've done stupider things in the past.
I knew a Guerciotti like that. Only the other way around.
Some people have no business holding a brazing torch.
Originally Posted by nlerner
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03-07-23, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
One thing to check, if you have a brazed on cable stop on the chain stay, make sure it's on the bottom of the stay. If it's braze onto the top you can't use one. It may seem obvious, but I've done stupider things in the past.
03-21-23, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Originally Posted by seedsbelize2
Currently unavailable. I'll look around and see id i can find one locally.
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03-21-23, 11:46 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
. . . . Shipped ASAP. This AM, already in transit from Baltimore MD which is 30 miles away, so I figure I'll have it in a day or two. I check again, and nine hours later it's in Davenport, FL... 900 miles away!
When I lived in that area, I once had time-sensitive paperwork mailed using trackable Priority Mail bounce back-and-forth 3 or 4 times between Baltimore and DC before it finally got sent to the correct location - which was in Indiana. As I recall it took nearly 2 weeks for it to be delivered.
And it wasn't a labeling problem. I used one of their Flat Rate envelopes, with all addressing info clearly printed in the correct locations on the places indicated on said envelope.
My guess is that in your case one of the "stellar" USPS employees in Baltimore (who has enough seniority to be essentially guaranteed a job for life) threw the package into the wrong bin, thus putting it on the wrong truck.
Last edited by Hondo6; 03-21-23 at 11:53 AM.
03-21-23, 04:04 PM
#20
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If you don't feel like drilling and tapping, glue works. I have used both epoxy and hot glue a few times. A bolt is better, but there is minimal force from shifting on that plastic piece.
03-21-23, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
This AM, already in transit from Baltimore MD which is 30 miles away, so I figure I'll have it in a day or two. I check again, and nine hours later it's in Davenport, FL... 900 miles away!
Stranger yet I got it on time! I think by going to Hawaii first it bypassed the USPS "blackhole" at Hazelwood, Missouri.
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03-21-23, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by robobike316
If you don't feel like drilling and tapping, glue works. I have used both epoxy and hot glue a few times. A bolt is better, but there is minimal force from shifting on that plastic piece.
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03-21-23, 07:53 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by ...Well, it gives me time to check my tap-n-die set and make sure I have M5x0.8mm, and [u
also figure out what size pilot drilled is used before tapping[/u].
03-22-23, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo6
USPS in the Baltimore/DC area is legendarily bad. When I lived in that area, I once had time-sensitive paperwork mailed using trackable Priority Mail bounce back-and-forth 3 or 4 times between Baltimore and DC before it finally got sent to the correct location - which was in Indiana. As I recall it took nearly 2 weeks for it to be delivered. And it wasn't a labeling problem. I used one of their Flat Rate envelopes, with all addressing info clearly printed in the correct locations on the places indicated on said envelope. My guess is that in your case one of the "stellar" USPS employees in Baltimore (who has enough seniority to be essentially guaranteed a job for life) threw the package into the wrong bin, thus putting it on the wrong truck.
? But nothing in the 19 hours since, and nothing I can do about it. Plus, the first one I ordered, after 11 days of nothing, now shows "left a carrier facility" so, someday, I might have two of these. No matter. Regardless, beyond the woes of actually getting a guide...
Originally Posted by ralphs
Tap drill sizes for metric threads are the major diameter minus the pitch. In your case, 4.2mm (0.1653") ~ #19 drill. 11/64" would also work (0.1719" dia), with slightly looser threads, but shouldn't be an issue since you're just holding the guide in place.
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03-22-23, 06:25 AM
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I don't mean to be a McGyvoring heathen but a drop of contact cement would hold that in place for eternity.
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