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Niche-Bikes "Snobs"

Old 03-19-23, 08:10 AM
  #101  
52telecaster
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
to wander a bit further from the topic... I'll wave to motorcyclists while riding bikes; especially if it is out on the rural roads where nobody else is near. Some wave back and some don't, but what intrigues me is that they are much more likely to wave back when I'm riding a recumbent. I'm not sure if 'bents are just weird and harmless, or if the body position is more similar to a motorcycle and therefore closer to being in their tribe.
.. of course, 'bents just get all sorts of weird reactions, so maybe I'm reading too much into it?

and on the topic of snobbery and "us vs. them", today's Pearls Before Swine comic was quite relatable ...




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When I'm touring with full camping gear motorcyclist not only wave, sometimes they pull over to talk to me. Honestly when touring almost everyone is your friend.
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Old 03-19-23, 08:11 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Waving Immunity:

Regarding waving? Wow. There are so many possible scenarios. Here's one: A rider is going the other way. We are both doing about 22mph on the flat. He waves. I haven't seen him yet (or cared to look up). I'm lost in a reverie of a B-52's song in my mind, working some alternate lyrics into it. The rider sees that there is no response from me. I look up and see her for a split second before she passes and I wave. No response (she had no time to respond, and has already waved). Should we both feel cheated? Ignored? If you wave to a tree in the woods and no one is there to witness it, did it ever really happen?
I think the real issue is a spiritual one: We can't allow ourselves to become jaded in life. Your generosity might not always be requited, but it is always worth trying, in the long run.
Absolutely!
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Old 03-19-23, 08:13 AM
  #103  
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Oh **** to waving. Get over it. On busy routes, I don't need to wave to 100+ cyclists. Once you are used to not waving, you don't wave. I certainly don't take offence when walking down the street if you don't say a word when passing, why is it offensive when on a bike? Does Emily Post have a special rule about this?
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Old 03-19-23, 08:40 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by iab
Oh **** to waving. Get over it. On busy routes, I don't need to wave to 100+ cyclists. Once you are used to not waving, you don't wave. I certainly don't take offence when walking down the street if you don't say a word when passing, why is it offensive when on a bike? Does Emily Post have a special rule about this?
I've wondered whether it was related primarily to the number of people or cyclists that you encounter.

I know that when I'm riding out on the local rural roads, I hardly see anyone, much less cyclists. As such, if a car comes from the other direction, we're often the only humans in sight, so it's natural to give a quick wave (and this is often standard practice for motorists). Of course, if you are out in these areas, you probably live there, so these folks are probably neighbors or acquaintances, so waving is normal.

When I've gone up to Chicagoland for a group vintage ride, we encounter a lot of other cyclists, so waving constantly would interfere with riding the bike.

Here in Peoria, I don't think I've ever seen enough cyclists in the course of a ride that I wouldn't give a quick wave, but it's pretty low on my list of priorities. I'm much more focused on avoiding cars and potholes when on the road, or watching out for dogs on long leashes when on a MUP.

Steve in Peoria
btw, did anyone else watch Si's video on GCN about comparing his Merckx replica with a low cost modern bike? The Merckx comes out looking better than I expected.
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Old 03-19-23, 08:40 AM
  #105  
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This thread is funny.

Years ago I remember in a different forum (motorcycle?) one of the participants made what I thought was a hilarious and sarcastic comment - I waved at another guy. He didnt wave back. What a psycho. 🤣
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Old 03-19-23, 08:44 AM
  #106  
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I'm in the waving-to-other-cyclists camp and most around here wave back, even if it's just a finger slightly raised off of the bars. The thing that bugs me, probably too much so, is when someone passes me without saying anything. I mean, it's common courtesy for a quick "on yer left" or some such or maybe even "Good morning!" This happened on yesterday's ride, actually, and I semi-shouted "good morning to you, too!" as the racer boy sped away.
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Old 03-19-23, 09:01 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I'm in the waving-to-other-cyclists camp and most around here wave back, even if it's just a finger slightly raised off of the bars. The thing that bugs me, probably too much so, is when someone passes me without saying anything. I mean, it's common courtesy for a quick "on yer left" or some such or maybe even "Good morning!" This happened on yesterday's ride, actually, and I semi-shouted "good morning to you, too!" as the racer boy sped away.
You're messing with my cat-6 mellow.
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Old 03-19-23, 09:59 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Grant Petersen and Rivendell has never stated or hinted that "racers are the enemy." The entire point is that most cyclists are not racers, so bikes designed for racing may not make sense to most riders. Grant Petersen's ultimate message is to make informed decisions about your bike purchases based on the kind of riding you want to do. If you want to race, get a bike meant for racing. I am quite certain Grant will not begrudge you the purchase. If you don't race but like the feel and geometry of a racing bike, go get one. I am quite certain Grant will not begrudge you that purchase, either. But if you want something more upright and more all-day comfy, why buy what a Europro rides, with its emphasis on going faster than the vast majority of us will ever go at the expense of comfort? Yes, he makes a living selling non-racing bikes. But that doesn't make his position any less legit. And he must be on to something, because a fair number of things he's been saying and selling for years have caught on with other operations as well.

And no, I don't think Grant Petersen regrets what he started. Why should he?
In fairness to Grant, I believe that I've never read anything by him where he calls out racers or any other category of riders---and I've read a lot of his writing, having started collecting the print version of the Rivendell Reader when the first issue came out in the mid-'90s. He never gets personal---he talks only about the clothing and the gear, the "plastic outfits" and "plastic bikes" and "point-and-shoot" indexing and the like.

What I'd regret if I were Grant is that out in the world, the topic has morphed from being about the modern bikes and equipment to being about the people who like and use those bikes and that equipment, and has resulted in, e.g., all the consequent nastiness we see in winter C&V threads on Bike Forums.

Inevitably. To paraphrase Randy Newman speaking about Los Angeles residents after they embraced his ironic song I Love LA, "Americans aren't big on nuance."
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Old 03-19-23, 10:02 AM
  #109  
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I’m a Snob and always look down on e-bikers. I’m actually a hater of e-bikes and usually cannot separate the bike from the biker and hate the whole package. Electric motorized bikes are NOT a genre of cycling.
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Old 03-19-23, 10:22 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Im a Snob and always look down on e-bikers. Im actually a hater of e-bikes and usually cannot separate the bike from the biker and hate the whole package. Electric motorized bikes are NOT a genre of cycling.
No worries. When I drop you like a bag of wet sand on my ebike, your hate is my glee.
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Old 03-19-23, 12:25 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
The thing that bugs me, probably too much so, is when someone passes me without saying anything. I mean, it's common courtesy for a quick "on yer left" or some such or maybe even "Good morning!"
I'm in the other camp. I don't want to hear "on your left!" shouted when modern carbon guy is passing me safely with no one else around. I don't want to hear his voice, his bad music out of the headphones whipping around his neck, nor his plastic, clackity-clackity-clack sounding cassette. I already have to suffer through the usual, "hey, you're ready for L'Eroica."

But if I knew it were you, I would definitely give it a hearty "good morning!" ... especially if it were closer to 4:00pm.
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Old 03-19-23, 12:33 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I'm in the other camp. I don't want to hear "on your left!" shouted when modern carbon guy is passing me safely with no one else around. I don't want to hear his voice, his bad music out of the headphones whipping around his neck, nor his plastic, clackity-clackity-clack sounding cassette. I already have to suffer through the usual, "hey, you're ready for L'Eroica."

But if I knew it were you, I would definitely give it a hearty "good morning!" ... especially if it were closer to 4:00pm.
I figured you offer a hearty "Goodaye, mate"! in your best Crocodile Dundee voice.
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Old 03-19-23, 12:39 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Im a Snob and always look down on e-bikers. Im actually a hater of e-bikes and usually cannot separate the bike from the biker and hate the whole package. Electric motorized bikes are NOT a genre of cycling.
I understand you completely. That was my initial reaction to all e-bikes. My position has evolved a bit. I am now bothered a lot less by someone who is using the e-power as a supplement to pedal power to allow them to ride places they otherwise could not. I try to tell myself that there is nothing wrong with this, I'm just not there . . . yet.

Around here, a surprising number of people have adopted electric long bikes to transport their kiddies to/from school, the park, etc. The bikes I so dearly love would be singularly ill-equipped to do that. So e-bike on, parents. Maybe, just maybe, this will be a gateway drug for some of the young'uns that leads them to take up cycling down the road. Hey, a guy can dream . . . .

Folks who use an e-bike that is 95% "e" and 5% "bike" as a substitute for a motorcycle still annoy me. I've gotten better - not perfect, but better - at not letting them harsh my mellow for more than a moment. But if any subset of e-bikers deserves my/our scorn, it's these benighted souls. Their mindset is truly not that of a cyclist.

It still puts me out for a moment when I am grunting up a hill and an e-bike - any e-bike - whizzes by me. But for the most part, I have gotten to where I regard e-bikes the way I regard cars, busses, motorcycles, etc.; other things on the road of which I must be aware but I can live with so long as they are aware of me and obey the rules of the road. It has taken a while to get to this point and as noted above, I'm not perfect at it.
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Old 03-19-23, 12:48 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I've wondered whether it was related primarily to the number of people or cyclists that you encounter.
For me, the answer is yes. I rarely encounter another roadie on my Sunday 60-milers, and when I do, I usually point skyward and tip my hand forward (I can't get used to a lateral movement like waving). Do they respond? Who knows? I pin my eyes back onto the road in front of me immediately. I just want to make sure they know they were recognized.
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Old 03-19-23, 12:56 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
When I'm touring with full camping gear motorcyclist not only wave, sometimes they pull over to talk to me. Honestly when touring almost everyone is your friend.

Like so?
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Old 03-20-23, 06:47 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I'm in the other camp. I don't want to hear "on your left!" shouted when modern carbon guy is passing me safely with no one else around. I don't want to hear his voice, his bad music out of the headphones whipping around his neck, nor his plastic, clackity-clackity-clack sounding cassette. I already have to suffer through the usual, "hey, you're ready for L'Eroica."

But if I knew it were you, I would definitely give it a hearty "good morning!" ... especially if it were closer to 4:00pm.
Oh, wait, I found a vid of you waving:
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Old 03-20-23, 06:55 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I found a vid of you waving.
Can't believe that resurfaced. In my defense, I was simply practicing for my parade float.
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Old 03-20-23, 07:46 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I feel you on folks worrying they don't measure up. We all feel that way a bit at times. Anyone who pedals anything is not going to kill me on the road while pedaling.
oh yes they can crash you.
wide birth to the loony's
the problem with many ebike riders is ther cannot ride a straight lane AND cannot be dropped.
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Old 03-21-23, 05:53 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Can this guy do this for eight hours? We need a new traffic cop who is more "flexible" with the rules.
Damn! I just deleted that post (only minutes ago!) after having a think, and realizing some religious members might find my comment insensitive.

Do you mind covering my six?

Thanks in advance

**** EDIT: I guess if I delete my post, it takes posts in which it was quoted with it, too ****

DD
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Old 03-21-23, 06:53 AM
  #120  
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I feel a sense of snobbishness toward people that have to buy their bikes as pre-assembled, off-the-shelf models and are stuck having to ride whatever the industry is selling these days, especially through bike shops. I make the generalization that these are the people that don't work on their own bikes and probably don't even own a workstand. I feel superior because I've built every one of my bikes from the frame up, and built them just exactly the way I want them. Maybe that's the snobbishness that people feel coming from C&V people. It's not about "old tech vs new tech". It's that we work on, and in many cases build, our own bikes.

Just a thought.
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Old 03-21-23, 08:03 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
I feel a sense of snobbishness toward people that have to buy their bikes as pre-assembled, off-the-shelf models and are stuck having to ride whatever the industry is selling these days, especially through bike shops. I make the generalization that these are the people that don't work on their own bikes and probably don't even own a workstand. I feel superior because I've built every one of my bikes from the frame up, and built them just exactly the way I want them. Maybe that's the snobbishness that people feel coming from C&V people. It's not about "old tech vs new tech". It's that we work on, and in many cases build, our own bikes.

Just a thought.
This probably at the base of most of the judgmental arguments presented by a select few. I dont think C&V reference is relevant as it represents collectors and vintage advocates not riders. Over the years I have participated in countless group events from LEtape and Maratona dles Dolomites to Ragbrai and a vast majority of those riders are on current modern store bought bikes, C&V bikes are a extreme rarity. For a good reason when compared to modern equipment they are not that great to ride long distances or rides with lots of vertical.

Most purchasers of modern bikes choose to do so not have to as you stated. I choose to ride mostly off the shelf bikes a current S Works Roubaix and Diverge because they provide amazing value and performance. I also own a custom built up steel GRX based adventure bike (riding it currently on a month long tour in Vietnam) and finally a perfectly restored custom 1978 Marinoni which is hanging in my den which is never ridden. I choose these bikes and my friends have done the same with their bikes.

You are being very judgmental on the tens of thousands of sport cyclists who participate in mass start events or weekend rides with their mates who by a vast majority ride current technology bikes bought from bike shops. Its no big deal building up bike especially with older technology, although you feel somehow it gives you and a few other compatriots an air of superiority over other riders, when really you are just choosing another way of participating in this sport. No better, no worse.
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Old 03-21-23, 10:11 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
For me, the answer is yes. I rarely encounter another roadie on my Sunday 60-milers, and when I do, I usually point skyward and tip my hand forward (I can't get used to a lateral movement like waving). Do they respond? Who knows? I pin my eyes back onto the road in front of me immediately. I just want to make sure they know they were recognized.
Like a Roman salute? I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't be OK with that...
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Old 03-21-23, 10:18 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
I feel a sense of snobbishness toward people that have to buy their bikes as pre-assembled, off-the-shelf models and are stuck having to ride whatever the industry is selling these days, especially through bike shops. I make the generalization that these are the people that don't work on their own bikes and probably don't even own a workstand. I feel superior because I've built every one of my bikes from the frame up, and built them just exactly the way I want them. Maybe that's the snobbishness that people feel coming from C&V people. It's not about "old tech vs new tech". It's that we work on, and in many cases build, our own bikes.

Just a thought.
To put a bit of a twist on this idea, I've found myself lamenting the number of folks who don't maintain their own bikes. Practically, a lot of folks don't have the spare time to do it, and perhaps not the mechanical skills to do so. There's also the fact that they are helping keep the local bike shops alive, so their lack of skills or time has a positive side effect for the rest of the cycling community.

The only folks who annoy me are the ones who refuse to learn the most basic maintenance skills; i.e. fixing a flat.
To be fair, I've only met one person like this. It was on RAGBRAI, many years ago. A women was waiting by the side of the road with a flat, looking for someone to fix it. I offered to help, by teaching her how to do it. She wasn't interested in learning how... she just wanted someone to do it for her. I said "okay. good luck!", and went on.
Since then, I've helped a number of people learn how to fix their flats, with varying degrees of success, so I suppose I'm only snobbish towards this one person. Strange how she managed to stay in my memory for so long!

Steve in Peoria
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Old 03-21-23, 10:29 AM
  #124  
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There's quite a busy bike-share program in Boston, and it's made me realize that there are a whole lot of folks who aren't just not interested in maintaining their bikes by themselves--they're not interested in owning a bike at all! It's a tool to get from A to B, not something to shower with nostalgia.
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Old 03-21-23, 10:57 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
Like a Roman salute? I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't be OK with that...
I don't know what you're talking about. What is a "roman salute"?
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