Niche-Bikes "Snobs"
03-22-23, 09:56 AM
#151
Senior Member
Some historical background: the so-called "Roman salute" does not appear to have ever been used in Ancient Rome. No clear example of it is found in existing artifacts from either Republican Rome or the Roman Empire.
Rather, the gesture now called the "Roman salute" appears to have been invented by Jaques-Louis David in his 1784 painting entitled The Oath of the Horaitii. Though apparently historically inaccurate, it was afterwards used in many neoclassical works of art dealing with Ancient Rome. The gesture wasn't explicitly associated with European Fascism until Gabriel D'Annunzio made the association of that gesture with Italian Fascism in the early 1920s. Prior to then, it was simply an invented gesture inaccurately associated with Ancient Roman culture.
In fact, outside artistic circles the so-called Roman salute appears to have been largely unknown in the US by that name until accounts/photos/films of its use by European Fascists began to appear in news media in the 1920s.
However, a similar gesture - the Bellamy salute - was in fact apparently independently invented in the 1890s and thereafter used in the US during recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. Due to the similarity of that gesture (the Bellamy salute) to the Fascist salutes used prior to and during World War II, the US Flag Code was changed in 1942 to specify the "hand over heart while reciting the pledge" (that many Americans alive today remember) instead of the Bellamy salute.
Rather, the gesture now called the "Roman salute" appears to have been invented by Jaques-Louis David in his 1784 painting entitled The Oath of the Horaitii. Though apparently historically inaccurate, it was afterwards used in many neoclassical works of art dealing with Ancient Rome. The gesture wasn't explicitly associated with European Fascism until Gabriel D'Annunzio made the association of that gesture with Italian Fascism in the early 1920s. Prior to then, it was simply an invented gesture inaccurately associated with Ancient Roman culture.
In fact, outside artistic circles the so-called Roman salute appears to have been largely unknown in the US by that name until accounts/photos/films of its use by European Fascists began to appear in news media in the 1920s.
However, a similar gesture - the Bellamy salute - was in fact apparently independently invented in the 1890s and thereafter used in the US during recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. Due to the similarity of that gesture (the Bellamy salute) to the Fascist salutes used prior to and during World War II, the US Flag Code was changed in 1942 to specify the "hand over heart while reciting the pledge" (that many Americans alive today remember) instead of the Bellamy salute.
Last edited by Hondo6; 03-22-23 at 10:02 AM.
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03-23-23, 01:41 AM
#153
ambulatory senior
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Very cool. I had a guy on an old bmw cross the road on a bridge to ask me how I was doing and where I was going while crossing the Mississippi from Illinois to Iowa. The humanity in those interactions is wonderful.
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03-23-23, 08:05 AM
#154
Senior Member
I posted what I did in my last 2 comments above for two reasons.The first was because I hate to see the wrong person castigated for something they did not say. The second I posted because many people are abysmally ignorant of history, unquestioningly believing whatever they last read on the Internet to be absolute truth and never bothering to actually research historical background or fact.
You did exactly the former in a previous comment. Only you know whether the latter applies to you.
Further discussion of the gesture you find objectionable is IMO likely more appropriate for the "Politcs & Religion" sub-forum and should be discussed there instead of here.
Last edited by Hondo6; 03-23-23 at 08:28 AM.
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03-23-23, 10:27 AM
#155
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Some historical background: the so-called "Roman salute" does not appear to have ever been used in Ancient Rome. No clear example of it is found in existing artifacts from either Republican Rome or the Roman Empire.
Rather, the gesture now called the "Roman salute" appears to have been invented by Jaques-Louis David in his 1784 painting entitled The Oath of the Horaitii. Though apparently historically inaccurate, it was afterwards used in many neoclassical works of art dealing with Ancient Rome. The gesture wasn't explicitly associated with European Fascism until Gabriel D'Annunzio made the association of that gesture with Italian Fascism in the early 1920s. Prior to then, it was simply an invented gesture inaccurately associated with Ancient Roman culture.
In fact, outside artistic circles the so-called Roman salute appears to have been largely unknown in the US by that name until accounts/photos/films of its use by European Fascists began to appear in news media in the 1920s.
However, a similar gesture - the Bellamy salute - was in fact apparently independently invented in the 1890s and thereafter used in the US during recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. Due to the similarity of that gesture (the Bellamy salute) to the Fascist salutes used prior to and during World War II, the US Flag Code was changed in 1942 to specify the "hand over heart while reciting the pledge" (that many Americans alive today remember) instead of the Bellamy salute.
Rather, the gesture now called the "Roman salute" appears to have been invented by Jaques-Louis David in his 1784 painting entitled The Oath of the Horaitii. Though apparently historically inaccurate, it was afterwards used in many neoclassical works of art dealing with Ancient Rome. The gesture wasn't explicitly associated with European Fascism until Gabriel D'Annunzio made the association of that gesture with Italian Fascism in the early 1920s. Prior to then, it was simply an invented gesture inaccurately associated with Ancient Roman culture.
In fact, outside artistic circles the so-called Roman salute appears to have been largely unknown in the US by that name until accounts/photos/films of its use by European Fascists began to appear in news media in the 1920s.
However, a similar gesture - the Bellamy salute - was in fact apparently independently invented in the 1890s and thereafter used in the US during recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. Due to the similarity of that gesture (the Bellamy salute) to the Fascist salutes used prior to and during World War II, the US Flag Code was changed in 1942 to specify the "hand over heart while reciting the pledge" (that many Americans alive today remember) instead of the Bellamy salute.
03-23-23, 11:36 AM
#156
Senior Member
03-23-23, 11:57 AM
#157
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
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