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Vintage vs. Modern Video

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Vintage vs. Modern Video

Old 03-22-23, 09:03 PM
  #26  
Caliwild
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These videos from GCN are just fun to watch... for me at least.
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Old 03-22-23, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
expert opinion was that the cheap new bike is better for most people. This isn't really a surprise.
... similar to automatic transmissions, blockbuster movies, light beer, Eagles, Harry Potter, etc...
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Old 03-22-23, 10:03 PM
  #28  
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I was expecting a desire to resurrect Super 8.
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Old 03-22-23, 10:34 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
I havenít watched this video, but I did see the one where they took a vintage racer out of museum and had to throw a new rear wheel on the back. (Or maybe this is that video?)

But they complained about the brakes without replacing the 50 year old pads, and complained about the shifting without practicing on the down tubes at all, and complained about the toeclips, also without bothering to familiarize themselves with their use. Same with the old rubber on the tiresÖ

if your testers donít have the ability to use the equipment, the test is just fluff. Iíve used brifters exactly once while test riding a tandem I was thinking about buying. I kept reaching for nonexistent down tube shifters. I donít fault the brifters for my riding habits.
Regardless each one of the areas you mentioned are vastly inferior to modern technology. Brakes to tires there is absolutely no comparison or advantage to vintage equipment other than simplicity. But when factoring in the extreme reliability of modern tech even that supposed advantage is eliminated.
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Old 03-22-23, 11:03 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
I imagine that is true. 99% of people do prefer modern equipment for the convenience. The 1% would disagree. They would argue that new is not superior at all and is in fact not all that great based on the things that matter to them.
A proud 1%er here!
Me, too.

When I go into the mountains, I switch to an Ultra6 freewheel, a DeOre XT rear derailleur and a 42/45T chain ring pair up front. That set up still fits in my 120 mm rear triangle.

There was a time when I considered spreading the rear triangle and doing other mods to update the bike. I used to have all sorts of more modern technology on the bike but I stripped it all off, got back to basics and couldn't be happier.

I like the pairing of a 5 speed freewheel to a Nuovo Record derailleur. They were literally made for each other.

The only updated technology on the bike are the tires. They are patterned after tubulars but are high pressure clincher.
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Old 03-23-23, 01:23 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Because he was trying to compare a top-level racing bike from 1969 to a modern low-end road bike.
What you're proposing would be a different comparison.
Top end racers changed freewheels for conditions.
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Old 03-23-23, 01:49 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Or in other words 99% of active sport cyclists even those who owned those so called vintage bikes when they were new, if still cycling ride modern bikes. Some may still own a collectors piece and put in the odd mile but if a serious ride is done itís done on a modern bike. Itís not some conspiracy just like a modern car is vastly superior to one built in the 70ís.
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Regardless each one of the areas you mentioned are vastly inferior to modern technology. Brakes to tires there is absolutely no comparison or advantage to vintage equipment other than simplicity. But when factoring in the extreme reliability of modern tech even that supposed advantage is eliminated.
You forget where you're at or just confused?
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Old 03-23-23, 01:53 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
Me, too.

When I go into the mountains, I switch to an Ultra6 freewheel, a DeOre XT rear derailleur and a 42/45T chain ring pair up front. That set up still fits in my 120 mm rear triangle.

There was a time when I considered spreading the rear triangle and doing other mods to update the bike. I used to have all sorts of more modern technology on the bike but I stripped it all off, got back to basics and couldn't be happier.

I like the pairing of a 5 speed freewheel to a Nuovo Record derailleur. They were literally made for each other.

The only updated technology on the bike are the tires. They are patterned after tubulars but are high pressure clincher.
Ditto, but one of my concessions to the modern world is I do like riding modern fatties like 32-622.
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Old 03-23-23, 06:08 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly View Post
But they complained about the brakes without replacing the 50 year old pads, and complained about the shifting without practicing on the down tubes at all, and complained about the toeclips, also without bothering to familiarize themselves with their use. Same with the old rubber on the tiresÖ
That's something I forgot in my earlier critique. I'd definitely not expect vintage rubber and plastic to be any good on a bike. At least replace the cable housings, brake pads, and sew-ups if you want a fair trial. I'm somewhat happy that my old stash of Veloflex Crits bought at the start of the 2000s and some older ugly orange Conti Sprinters still are pliable, hold air, and seem to work well, but it's definitely time to refresh my tire stash. I'd definitely not trust some fifty year old Clement silks.
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Old 03-23-23, 06:11 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
You forget where you're at or just confused?
Or he's just trolling.
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Old 03-23-23, 06:30 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
each one of the areas you mentioned are vastly inferior to modern technology. Brakes to tires, there is absolutely no comparison to vintage equipment other than simplicity. But when factoring in the extreme reliability of modern tech even that supposed advantage is eliminated.
"No comparison"? You can't compare the vintage side-pulls on my bikes to modern brakes? Mine stop the bike when I want them to stop the bike. Don't modern brakes do that?

"Extreme reliability of modern tech"? My perfectly functioning bikes are 35-50 years old, all of them. How can they get "more reliable"?

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Old 03-23-23, 07:40 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
They had to build a new old Merckx because all the old bikes they test keep breaking??
I wonder where they get their old bikes from? I may not be putting out 500 watts for hours at a time but my old bikes hold up just fine.
Something is a bit off here.
Yeah, I'm suspicious too about them "breaking" the older bikes. There's one shot of him in the distance yelling to his friend that he has "a problem" but we don't know what that is. Maybe he had a flat tire or a broken spoke. And then some vague thing about "riding in anger". They don't actually show us what supposedly broke, did they? Maybe I missed it.

If old bikes were prone to breaking, we wouldn't all be riding them. They seemed to be just making an excuse for the need to build their own replica.
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Old 03-23-23, 08:21 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
Yeah, I'm suspicious too about them "breaking" the older bikes. There's one shot of him in the distance yelling to his friend that he has "a problem" but we don't know what that is. Maybe he had a flat tire or a broken spoke. And then some vague thing about "riding in anger". They don't actually show us what supposedly broke, did they? Maybe I missed it.

If old bikes were prone to breaking, we wouldn't all be riding them. They seemed to be just making an excuse for the need to build their own replica.
I have noticed a trend with these programs when they include older, classic bicycles.
The old bikes always seem to be museum pieces or display bikes. I doubt they are ridden in any regular fashion and probably not maintained.
I imagine these guys have no involvement with people outside their limited circle of hip riding buddies. Always riding the newest equipment.
I can certainly understand that being important to them.
However it would be interesting if they befriended some people who ride vintage bikes on a regular basis. Maybe even take part in a Heroic event or similar. Genuinely inquire what people like us see in these machines. Not asking that they agree with us just put in some genuine effort.
Otherwise, we get the crap content only designed to create clicks. That shallowness is kind of built in. Itís all about advertising. Again, they have a business model and they make it work.
Vintage bike content publications have the same bias, promote and embellish what they sell and advertise.
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Old 03-23-23, 08:28 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
Top end racers changed freewheels for conditions.
Indeed, and Si was running one with a 23t cog, which is a departure from the "corncob" straight blocks common back then. Here's Merckx in 1969, on what seems to be the bike Si tried to copy:


That looks like a pretty tight cluster to me, and the crankset looks to be pretty close, too - like the 52/42 common at the time.
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Old 03-23-23, 08:32 AM
  #40  
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RE SurferRosa : "Extreme reliability of modern tech"? My perfectly functioning bikes are 35-50 years old, all of them. How can they get "more reliable"?

Correct. The Extreme reliability of classic bikes has passed this test of decades as documented in the C&V threads. Cant claim this for new bikes and I dont think they will pass the same reliability and maintainability for 35-50 years.
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Old 03-23-23, 08:42 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I spend decades on lugged steel racing bikes, but I have to admit that I admire the current shark-like speedy look of carbon and aluminum bikes. Spindly steel bikes such as that Merckx are starting to look a bit like antiques to me.
Interesting. I agree to a point, but I like them both. What I don't like is that cheap, fugly alloy disc bike in the video.
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Old 03-23-23, 08:44 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
Or he's just trolling.
Really so we are only allowed to participate in a one sided self congratulatory debate and accept complete denial of any alternative perspectives or reality in general.

That said this is C&V and itís not really appropriate place to engage in an old versus new debate in my provocative tone. I leave leave this to everyone then.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 03-23-23 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 03-23-23, 08:46 AM
  #43  
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I think the main issue I have is that there have been two era changes for lack of a better word since the reign of Merckx. The first was click-in pedals and integrated shift. The second was abandoning rim brakes, and using large formed tubes whether carbon or aluminum. I think a more interesting comparison would be the steel bikes of that other five-time tour winner, Miguel Indurain, and the modern bikes. The closest I've seen is a nice vlog by Dutch 737 pilot and cycling enthusiast Jasper Verkuijl:
While I find paint a bit garish, I wouldn't mind having that ergo equipped Serotta as a vintage bling bike.
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Old 03-23-23, 09:01 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Really so we are only allowed to participate in a one sided debate and accept complete denial of any alternative perspectives.
The reason people think you are trolling is that you are making extreme claims without any attempt to engage in a debate. The advantages and disadvantages of modern versus vintage are not as clear cut as you pretend that they are. By the way, I had the 2d post on this thread and I agreed with the GCN video that modern bikes have a lot of advantages over vintage bikes. In fact, most people here I suspect don't disagree that a great many things have improved. If you spent any time reading the posts in C&V, you would find a quite a few posts saying exactly that.

The push back is that (a) vintage bikes are quite good to ride if you like maintaining them and (b) the differences are not as extreme as you suggest.

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Old 03-23-23, 10:05 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
I think the main issue I have is that there have been two era changes for lack of a better word since the reign of Merckx. The first was click-in pedals and integrated shift. The second was abandoning rim brakes, and using large formed tubes whether carbon or aluminum. I think a more interesting comparison would be the steel bikes of that other five-time tour winner, Miguel Indurain, and the modern bikes. The closest I've seen is a nice vlog by Dutch 737 pilot and cycling enthusiast Jasper Verkuijl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxX4eAc0wO0 While I find paint a bit garish, I wouldn't mind having that ergo equipped Serotta as a vintage bling bike.
For some reason, a Serotta is my dream bike. I would just stick with downtube shifters

Oh, man, that shop. Makes me want to go to Nurnberg. Owner wheels out the bike, says it's by "Ben Serotta, a famous builder from New York."
"Really?! So I'm actually riding, like, a super special bike?"

Great video, thanks.

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Old 03-23-23, 10:09 AM
  #46  
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Old 03-23-23, 10:17 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Indeed, and Si was running one with a 23t cog, which is a departure from the "corncob" straight blocks common back then. Here's Merckx in 1969, on what seems to be the bike Si tried to copy:


That looks like a pretty tight cluster to me, and the crankset looks to be pretty close, too - like the 52/42 common at the time.
I just think the whole idea is ridiculous honestly. I ride old steel and sit upright like the wicked witch in the wizard of oz and a good steel frame feels better than any aluminum or carbon bike I ever assembled or prepped when I built bikes for a local shop. I probably built 1000 in the last two years I worked. I just don't understand how that experience is so at odds with folks trying to sell new bikes...... Well actually I do.
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Old 03-23-23, 10:30 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
nice vlog by Dutch 737 pilot and cycling enthusiast Jasper Verkuijl.
Thanks for the video, super cool shop and bike. Helps that he is a strong rider.

On the post topic, it is hilarious that the 'vintage' bike actually wins in the two tests, but then loses at the end of the day.

Reminds me of this classic:

'Old' racing bikes aren't for everyone, but everyone should give them a try.
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Old 03-23-23, 10:37 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
They had to build a new old Merckx because all the old bikes they test keep breaking??
I wonder where they get their old bikes from? I may not be putting out 500 watts for hours at a time but my old bikes hold up just fine.
Something is a bit off here.
Maybe you forgot to ride them in anger

I personally find all these comparison threads and videos kind of funny, the better bike is always what one rides, and the best of them all is the one the person dreams about. If it is steel, carbon or moon stone does not really matter. I understand for a major bike channel like GCN must provide content regularly whether they have a good idea atm or not, and in case of latter companies are knocking on their door with a cube of momo to "say something good about the new 'xyz' besides its okay for the price", such comparisons can never be fair and its never the bikes fault, new or old.
Also the viewers should understand, that such videos are made for afternoon entertainment, and not as carved in stone facts.

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Old 03-23-23, 10:49 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Chinghis View Post
For some reason, a Serotta is my dream bike. I would just stick with downtube shifters
There are (or at least were) so many domestic builders who could put together a drool worthy bike. When I bought my first Mooney, I had originally planned to use the local hero (Matt Assenmacher), but he would have gotten to me years down the road, and I was hoping for a bike before the year was out. Mooney #716 with paint from Joe Bell took about six months as I recall. If I had done a bit more research, I might have considered Doug Fattic who is another builder in my state, but I wasn't even aware of him at the time. Fattic has certainly put out some very pretty steel. Sadly #716 was lost to an idiot driver who turned left into me from a stop. Result: bent bike and broken collar bone. The positive thing is the shoulder healed OK, he got points (not enough) on his license, and his insurance bought me a near clone (#729) though now with Campy 10 rather than 9.

Sorry to ramble.
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