Vintage vs. Modern Video
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03-22-23, 09:10 PM
#27
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03-22-23, 10:03 PM
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I was expecting a desire to resurrect Super 8.
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03-22-23, 10:34 PM
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I haven’t watched this video, but I did see the one where they took a vintage racer out of museum and had to throw a new rear wheel on the back. (Or maybe this is that video?)
But they complained about the brakes without replacing the 50 year old pads, and complained about the shifting without practicing on the down tubes at all, and complained about the toeclips, also without bothering to familiarize themselves with their use. Same with the old rubber on the tires…
if your testers don’t have the ability to use the equipment, the test is just fluff. I’ve used brifters exactly once while test riding a tandem I was thinking about buying. I kept reaching for nonexistent down tube shifters. I don’t fault the brifters for my riding habits.
But they complained about the brakes without replacing the 50 year old pads, and complained about the shifting without practicing on the down tubes at all, and complained about the toeclips, also without bothering to familiarize themselves with their use. Same with the old rubber on the tires…
if your testers don’t have the ability to use the equipment, the test is just fluff. I’ve used brifters exactly once while test riding a tandem I was thinking about buying. I kept reaching for nonexistent down tube shifters. I don’t fault the brifters for my riding habits.
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03-22-23, 11:03 PM
#30
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When I go into the mountains, I switch to an Ultra6 freewheel, a DeOre XT rear derailleur and a 42/45T chain ring pair up front. That set up still fits in my 120 mm rear triangle.
There was a time when I considered spreading the rear triangle and doing other mods to update the bike. I used to have all sorts of more modern technology on the bike but I stripped it all off, got back to basics and couldn't be happier.
I like the pairing of a 5 speed freewheel to a Nuovo Record derailleur. They were literally made for each other.
The only updated technology on the bike are the tires. They are patterned after tubulars but are high pressure clincher.
03-23-23, 01:23 AM
#31
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03-23-23, 01:49 AM
#32
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Or in other words 99% of active sport cyclists even those who owned those so called vintage bikes when they were new, if still cycling ride modern bikes. Some may still own a collectors piece and put in the odd mile but if a serious ride is done it’s done on a modern bike. It’s not some conspiracy just like a modern car is vastly superior to one built in the 70’s.
Regardless each one of the areas you mentioned are vastly inferior to modern technology. Brakes to tires there is absolutely no comparison or advantage to vintage equipment other than simplicity. But when factoring in the extreme reliability of modern tech even that supposed advantage is eliminated.
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03-23-23, 01:53 AM
#33
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Me, too.
When I go into the mountains, I switch to an Ultra6 freewheel, a DeOre XT rear derailleur and a 42/45T chain ring pair up front. That set up still fits in my 120 mm rear triangle.
There was a time when I considered spreading the rear triangle and doing other mods to update the bike. I used to have all sorts of more modern technology on the bike but I stripped it all off, got back to basics and couldn't be happier.
I like the pairing of a 5 speed freewheel to a Nuovo Record derailleur. They were literally made for each other.
The only updated technology on the bike are the tires. They are patterned after tubulars but are high pressure clincher.
When I go into the mountains, I switch to an Ultra6 freewheel, a DeOre XT rear derailleur and a 42/45T chain ring pair up front. That set up still fits in my 120 mm rear triangle.
There was a time when I considered spreading the rear triangle and doing other mods to update the bike. I used to have all sorts of more modern technology on the bike but I stripped it all off, got back to basics and couldn't be happier.
I like the pairing of a 5 speed freewheel to a Nuovo Record derailleur. They were literally made for each other.
The only updated technology on the bike are the tires. They are patterned after tubulars but are high pressure clincher.
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03-23-23, 06:08 AM
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But they complained about the brakes without replacing the 50 year old pads, and complained about the shifting without practicing on the down tubes at all, and complained about the toeclips, also without bothering to familiarize themselves with their use. Same with the old rubber on the tires…
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03-23-23, 06:30 AM
#36
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each one of the areas you mentioned are vastly inferior to modern technology. Brakes to tires, there is absolutely no comparison to vintage equipment other than simplicity. But when factoring in the extreme reliability of modern tech even that supposed advantage is eliminated.
"Extreme reliability of modern tech"?
My perfectly functioning bikes are 35-50 years old, all of them. How can they get "more reliable"?
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03-23-23, 07:40 AM
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If old bikes were prone to breaking, we wouldn't all be riding them. They seemed to be just making an excuse for the need to build their own replica.
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03-23-23, 08:21 AM
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Yeah, I'm suspicious too about them "breaking" the older bikes. There's one shot of him in the distance yelling to his friend that he has "a problem" but we don't know what that is. Maybe he had a flat tire or a broken spoke. And then some vague thing about "riding in anger". They don't actually show us what supposedly broke, did they? Maybe I missed it.
If old bikes were prone to breaking, we wouldn't all be riding them. They seemed to be just making an excuse for the need to build their own replica.
If old bikes were prone to breaking, we wouldn't all be riding them. They seemed to be just making an excuse for the need to build their own replica.
The old bikes always seem to be museum pieces or display bikes. I doubt they are ridden in any regular fashion and probably not maintained.
I imagine these guys have no involvement with people outside their limited circle of hip riding buddies. Always riding the newest equipment.
I can certainly understand that being important to them.
However it would be interesting if they befriended some people who ride vintage bikes on a regular basis. Maybe even take part in a Heroic event or similar. Genuinely inquire what people like us see in these machines. Not asking that they agree with us just put in some genuine effort.
Otherwise, we get the crap content only designed to create clicks. That shallowness is kind of built in. It’s all about advertising. Again, they have a business model and they make it work.
Vintage bike content publications have the same bias, promote and embellish what they sell and advertise.
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03-23-23, 08:28 AM
#39
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Indeed, and Si was running one with a 23t cog, which is a departure from the "corncob" straight blocks common back then. Here's Merckx in 1969, on what seems to be the bike Si tried to copy:
That looks like a pretty tight cluster to me, and the crankset looks to be pretty close, too - like the 52/42 common at the time.
That looks like a pretty tight cluster to me, and the crankset looks to be pretty close, too - like the 52/42 common at the time.
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03-23-23, 08:32 AM
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RE SurferRosa : "Extreme reliability of modern tech"? My perfectly functioning bikes are 35-50 years old, all of them. How can they get "more reliable"?
Correct. The Extreme reliability of classic bikes has passed this test of decades as documented in the C&V threads. Cant claim this for new bikes and I dont think they will pass the same reliability and maintainability for 35-50 years.
My perfectly functioning bikes are 35-50 years old, all of them. How can they get "more reliable"?Correct. The Extreme reliability of classic bikes has passed this test of decades as documented in the C&V threads. Cant claim this for new bikes and I dont think they will pass the same reliability and maintainability for 35-50 years.
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03-23-23, 08:42 AM
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Interesting. I agree to a point, but I like them both. What I don't like is that cheap, fugly alloy disc bike in the video.
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03-23-23, 08:44 AM
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Really so we are only allowed to participate in a one sided self congratulatory debate and accept complete denial of any alternative perspectives or reality in general.
That said this is C&V and it’s not really appropriate place to engage in an old versus new debate in my provocative tone. I leave leave this to everyone then.
That said this is C&V and it’s not really appropriate place to engage in an old versus new debate in my provocative tone. I leave leave this to everyone then.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 03-23-23 at 09:01 AM.
03-23-23, 08:46 AM
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I think the main issue I have is that there have been two era changes for lack of a better word since the reign of Merckx. The first was click-in pedals and integrated shift. The second was abandoning rim brakes, and using large formed tubes whether carbon or aluminum. I think a more interesting comparison would be the steel bikes of that other five-time tour winner, Miguel Indurain, and the modern bikes. The closest I've seen is a nice vlog by Dutch 737 pilot and cycling enthusiast Jasper Verkuijl:
While I find paint a bit garish, I wouldn't mind having that ergo equipped Serotta as a vintage bling bike.
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03-23-23, 09:01 AM
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The push back is that (a) vintage bikes are quite good to ride if you like maintaining them and (b) the differences are not as extreme as you suggest.
Last edited by bikemig; 03-23-23 at 09:04 AM.
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03-23-23, 10:05 AM
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I think the main issue I have is that there have been two era changes for lack of a better word since the reign of Merckx. The first was click-in pedals and integrated shift. The second was abandoning rim brakes, and using large formed tubes whether carbon or aluminum. I think a more interesting comparison would be the steel bikes of that other five-time tour winner, Miguel Indurain, and the modern bikes. The closest I've seen is a nice vlog by Dutch 737 pilot and cycling enthusiast Jasper Verkuijl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxX4eAc0wO0 While I find paint a bit garish, I wouldn't mind having that ergo equipped Serotta as a vintage bling bike.
Oh, man, that shop. Makes me want to go to Nurnberg. Owner wheels out the bike, says it's by "Ben Serotta, a famous builder from New York."
"Really?! So I'm actually riding, like, a super special bike?"
Great video, thanks.
Last edited by Chinghis; 03-23-23 at 10:12 AM.
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03-23-23, 10:17 AM
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Indeed, and Si was running one with a 23t cog, which is a departure from the "corncob" straight blocks common back then. Here's Merckx in 1969, on what seems to be the bike Si tried to copy:
That looks like a pretty tight cluster to me, and the crankset looks to be pretty close, too - like the 52/42 common at the time.
That looks like a pretty tight cluster to me, and the crankset looks to be pretty close, too - like the 52/42 common at the time.
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03-23-23, 10:30 AM
#48
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On the post topic, it is hilarious that the 'vintage' bike actually wins in the two tests, but then loses at the end of the day.
Reminds me of this classic:
'Old' racing bikes aren't for everyone, but everyone should give them a try.
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03-23-23, 10:37 AM
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I personally find all these comparison threads and videos kind of funny, the better bike is always what one rides, and the best of them all is the one the person dreams about. If it is steel, carbon or moon stone does not really matter. I understand for a major bike channel like GCN must provide content regularly whether they have a good idea atm or not, and in case of latter companies are knocking on their door with a cube of momo to "say something good about the new 'xyz' besides its okay for the price", such comparisons can never be fair and its never the bikes fault, new or old.
Also the viewers should understand, that such videos are made for afternoon entertainment, and not as carved in stone facts.
Last edited by Lattz; 03-23-23 at 10:58 AM.
03-23-23, 10:49 AM
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Sorry to ramble.
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