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Seat Tube Bands

Old 03-31-23, 09:22 AM
  #1  
Aardwolf
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Seat Tube Bands

Hiya Folks,
I'm planning a painting job and I'm considering a panel on the seat tube.
That will gives 2 paint joins on the seta tube: frame will be red with white panel and white head tube.
So I'm thinking bands (WC / Olympic / Other) are used in that position, possibly to hide the join.

This frame (was on Ebay) is my inspiration: Holdsworth Whirlwind (1952-1958):



Obviously painted by an expert, it has WC bands (although top one is upside down).
I've also seen a 73 Cyclone with the same scheme, and many others with bands that are not WC or Olympic.

My frame is a 61 Cyclone, that was repainted and had 'Other' bands on it: white/red/black/yellow/green (bottom up) with the top and bottom in the same order.

So basically my question is is it ok to use WC bands in the same manner as the Whirlwind.
I've got no idea if Holdsworth are entitled, but I trust that painter.

I have read the other threads on this topic and I'd prefer not to use WC bands if it's not ok, but H Lloyd only seems to stock real WC bands for Holdsworths (Professional).
Alternatively I could add a gold band or similar (I'm trying for gold lug lining).
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Old 03-31-23, 09:48 AM
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What a trip! That box pin-striping looks almost Jack Taylor-ish, and the lugs look very Hetchins-ish. I looked around ebay for the auction, but couldn't find anything. (grumble grumble pout.)
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Old 03-31-23, 10:05 AM
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If you're talking about the official UCI approval for use of the bands, the answer is probably that you aren't allowed to use them. Here's their official policy: https://archive.uci.org/docs/default...ng_neutral.pdf

The relevant part: "The rule is simple: if you are not expressly authorized to use any of the aforementioned assets, don't use them! The UCI and the UCI-appointed Organizing Committee will systematically take the necessary steps to make sure that their rights are being respected and that unauthorized use, if any,will be stopped."

On the other hand, I doubt that they send cease-and-desist letters to individuals painting vintage frames. Also, having thin gold stripes between the colors as the frame you pictured does might circumvent the trademark rules. I have a Performance Bike frame that uses the colors in a different order.

If you want to strictly follow the policy, you could try sending a message to the UCI to see if they would allow the stripes on a Holdsworth.
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Old 03-31-23, 10:47 AM
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You can, of course, decorate your bike in any manner you wish, without legal repercussions from the UCI or anybody else. You don't need to contact them. It's your bike and you can do what you want. The appropriate decals/stickers are readily available on eBay.

If you were planning to produce a line of bikes decorated like this as a commercial venture, that would be a different story.
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Old 03-31-23, 10:52 AM
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Man... That frame looks fantastic just standing there naked!

That's Bike Porn for sure...
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Old 03-31-23, 03:18 PM
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Not a big deal, I would do a white primer and paint the white areas, then mask off and do your color. Plus a clear coat.

Congradulations on your Holdsworth pick-up!
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Old 03-31-23, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MooneyBloke
What a trip! That box pin-striping looks almost Jack Taylor-ish, and the lugs look very Hetchins-ish. I looked around ebay for the auction, but couldn't find anything. (grumble grumble pout.)
Richard (the seller) advertised and sold that frame well over a year ago now.

-Gregory
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Old 03-31-23, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Richard (the seller) advertised and sold that frame well over a year ago now.

-Gregory
Yes, i wasn't trying to mislead anybody.
The Ebay advert was about 1 year back, I copied the photos because of the fantastic paint job.
But being a bit if a **** I forgot to include the information that went with it, not sure it even said who the artist was.

It is however the best Holdsworth paint job I've ever seen.

edit: apparently I can't say "t * * t", I thought that wasn't rude in america

Last edited by Aardwolf; 03-31-23 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Sensor
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Old 03-31-23, 06:59 PM
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H Lloyd has Holdsworth bands: https://h-lloyd-cycles.myshopify.com...riced-per-pair
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Old 03-31-23, 10:22 PM
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Many brands played a cheat with the world stripes, added a black key line between the colors, revised the order, used muted and or an alternate color set, my Harry Quinn had such- sold off 40 years ago.
there are also WC bands where the region between the colors is silver or gold metallic or silver.
Cinelli would place the bands opposed in color order.
I have a bike where the print house goofed, both bands are inverted, blue on top. And they were "allowed" to use them.

so it goes
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Old 04-01-23, 02:33 AM
  #11  
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I've uploaded all my photos from the original Ebay sale to an album: https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/28574862
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Old 04-01-23, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
I've uploaded all my photos from the original Ebay sale to an album: https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/28574862
That's the earliest brake bridge reinforcement that I have seen. Holdsworth is a class-act.
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Old 04-01-23, 08:46 AM
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Note the band colors are separated with metallic stripes - so not a WC infringement.

all in the details.
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Old 04-01-23, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
Yes, i wasn't trying to mislead anybody.
The Ebay advert was about 1 year back, I copied the photos because of the fantastic paint job.
But being a bit if a **** I forgot to include the information that went with it, not sure it even said who the artist was.

It is however the best Holdsworth paint job I've ever seen.

edit: apparently I can't say "t * * t", I thought that wasn't rude in america
It's even ruder in American usage.
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Old 04-01-23, 09:08 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by repechage
Note the band colors are separated with metallic stripes - so not a WC infringement.

all in the details.
Good point, I hadn't spotted that as it's difficult to see on the Whirlwind.
This is probably the best angle:


With metallic bands as you say.

The H Lloyd Cycles "Holdsworth Professional top tube world champion bands" can be seen slightly better on their Ebay entry:
They look like they're supposed to be the official version.
I'll have a look round for an acceptable non official version.
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Old 04-01-23, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
It's even ruder in American usage.
I'll use 'berk' next time, means the same thing originally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming_slang#Taboo_terms
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Old 04-01-23, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
I'll use 'berk' next time, means the same thing originally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyming_slang#Taboo_terms
Well, now you've gone and SAID IT, they'll have to reprogram the filter....
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Old 04-01-23, 09:21 AM
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Certainly a different years, and I don't know the model but here is what is on the red one that I picked up a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 04-01-23, 10:10 AM
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And we have a winner:
H LLoyd Cycles "Miscellaneous Olympic Bands"
https://h-lloyd-cycles.myshopify.com...seat-tube-pair



Which to my eyes looks like world champion bands with a line between them
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Old 04-01-23, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf

I have read the other threads on this topic and I'd prefer not to use WC bands if it's not ok, but H Lloyd only seems to stock real WC bands for Holdsworths (Professional).
Alternatively I could add a gold band or similar (I'm trying for gold lug lining).
Well it's not OK for a manufacturer to sell such an item if not approved by the supreme rulers... but they're not really good enforcers and don't have any say over what you do with your own bike.
If you'd rather not though... a flag motif would be fine - maybe like the GB trim on this team kit:

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Old 04-02-23, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
... but they're not really good enforcers and don't have any say over what you do with your own bike.
I don't think that's the issue here. Obviously no one other than Specialized would send lawyers after individuals for what they do to their own bikes. I think the point though is that if Holdsworth wouldn't have been allowed to use the stripes then using them won't be a faithful restoration of the bike. At least, that's the way I understood it.
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Old 04-02-23, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
I don't think that's the issue here. Obviously no one other than Specialized would send lawyers after individuals for what they do to their own bikes. I think the point though is that if Holdsworth wouldn't have been allowed to use the stripes then using them won't be a faithful restoration of the bike. At least, that's the way I understood it.
Yep, that's pretty much my view.

It looks to me like 'not really' world champion bands have been used a lot, even by some companies but probably not originally by Holdsworth.

On the other hand they are good enough for the Whirlwind painter so I'm prepared to use them if the paint doesn't look right without something
covering the join and I don't find an alternative I prefer.

Last edited by Aardwolf; 09-24-23 at 02:56 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-02-23, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Many brands played a cheat with the world stripes
Moser's approach was to add a white stripe at top and bottom.
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Old 04-02-23, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
Yes, i wasn't trying to mislead anybody.
The Ebay advert was about 1 year back, I copied the photos because of the fantastic paint job.
But being a bit if a **** I forgot to include the information that went with it, not sure it even said who the artist was.

It is however the best Holdsworth paint job I've ever seen.

edit: apparently I can't say "t * * t", I thought that wasn't rude in america

You might be thinking of fanny, which in the US just means your bum.
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Old 04-02-23, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly
You might be thinking of fanny, which in the US just means your bum.
You're probably right, it does get difficult keeping track of how American is different from English

Apparently Robert Browning didn't know the word and used it in Pippa Passes (1841)
'The[n] owls and bats,
Cowls and tw*ts,
Monks and nuns,
In a cloister's moods.'

Poor Robert! He had been misled into thinking the word meant 'hat' by its appearance in 'Vanity of Vanities,' a poem of 1660, containing the treacherous lines: 'They'd talk't of his having a Cardinalls Hat,/They'd send him as soon an Old Nuns Tw*t.'
From https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=****


Edit: You'll just have to guess what that link is.
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