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Koga Miyata Touring Bikes - Which are most similar to Miyata 1000? / General Advice

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Koga Miyata Touring Bikes - Which are most similar to Miyata 1000? / General Advice

Old 04-28-23, 10:37 AM
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Koga Miyata Touring Bikes - Which are most similar to Miyata 1000? / General Advice

A brief history of my interest in Miyatas - I recently moved to Paris a little more than a year ago from the US where I had a 1985 fuji del ray that i loved riding around my city. I had a back rack, carried groceries with it, and used it for everything. It felt quick, responsive, and solid. I really liked that bike and i bought it without any research for about $200.

Because of my fond memories of the Fuji, when i got to Paris i started looking for vintage Fuji's, of which there are very few in Europe. I then started looking at other Japanese steel bikes, and thought maybe i'd try to buy one of a slightly higher quality. From reading this forum I discovered Miyata and because i'm in Europe, Koga Miyata. My interest in Miyata is purely from reading about them online. If i could have it my way, i would buy a 1985/86 Miyata 1000 but Miyatas (non Koga) are hard to find in Europe.

So which model Koga Miyata is the closest to the Miyata 1000 in your opinion ? Because i really liked my 1985 fuji, i figured I'd find one from the same time period, 85-86. Also because people seem to rate the 85/86 1000s highly. Does that make sense or should i open up my search ?

Also, what are the primary differences between Koga Miyata's different touring models? For instance in 1986 they offered Randonneur Extra, Randonneur, Gran Tourer, Traveller, Adventure. From what i've gathered, the 1985 randonneur extra is a good bet, but does it make sense to hold out for that model or if I come across a Traveller from that year should i go for it ? Here's a link to the Koga catalogs, but i can't read dutch so i'm not sure what they're getting at (www)restoration.bike/bike-catalogs/koga-miyata-catalogs/

My interest in randonneurs is purely from the logic that I want to be able to haul things around, and I figure a touring bike, if you can ride it that far, it ought to be perfect as a city bike. I also live in a somewhat hilly area of Paris. Is this misguided?

I measure 1m87 and am looking for a 60cm. It also seems like Koga's run a bit small.. any insight on sizing ?

While waiting for this bike I bought a 1978 Nishiki 'Master' , 60 cm, locally. Compared to the fuji that I had i find it sluggish and i've never had a bike slide out so much while braking. I couldn't find any information about that model Nishiki on here, but if you all have any insights I'd be curious. I'm pretty new to vintage bikes. I continue to mess with the set up, but i don't love this bike. Maybe it needs a little more love.

Ive got a lot of questions in there don't feel oblidged to tackle all of them -- thanks for any insights I appreciate it !
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Old 04-28-23, 11:23 AM
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Before you do anything you might regret later: check out the history of the randonneur type bicycle and the role the French played in its development (spoiler: they invented it).

You are in Paris, man! The city that spawned some of the best randonneurs ever! Alex Singer, René Herse are both Parisian brands. And if those are outside your budget (they are outside mine, unfortunately) look for the lesser known French brands. Spend some time researching on the interwebs and look what's for sale on ebay.fr and leboncoin.fr. I am sure you can do better than to buy a Koga-Miyata.

Oh, and unless your legs are particularly short for your body length, 60cm is probably too small. I measure 1.84 with an 89cm cycling inseam and ride 64cm randonneurs for a nice "French fit".
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Old 04-28-23, 11:55 AM
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Search for some vintage Koga catalogs. The company "Koga" was and is Dutch. They contracted with Miyata to have frames built, thus the name. Koga built everything from commuters, to tourers to racing bikes (still does). So one of their models would likely have been a 1000, though they changed the name. I have a City Liner, vintage late 1990's. Its a full blown touring bike including a mount for a rear generator. Wonderful bike that I purchased as a frame in 1998 and have used since.
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Old 04-28-23, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by toutokay
A brief history of my interest in Miyatas - I recently moved to Paris a little more than a year ago from the US where I had a 1985 fuji del ray that i loved riding around my city. I had a back rack, carried groceries with it, and used it for everything. It felt quick, responsive, and solid. I really liked that bike and i bought it without any research for about $200.

Because of my fond memories of the Fuji, when i got to Paris i started looking for vintage Fuji's, of which there are very few in Europe. I then started looking at other Japanese steel bikes, and thought maybe i'd try to buy one of a slightly higher quality. From reading this forum I discovered Miyata and because i'm in Europe, Koga Miyata. My interest in Miyata is purely from reading about them online. If i could have it my way, i would buy a 1985/86 Miyata 1000 but Miyatas (non Koga) are hard to find in Europe.

So which model Koga Miyata is the closest to the Miyata 1000 in your opinion ? Because i really liked my 1985 fuji, i figured I'd find one from the same time period, 85-86. Also because people seem to rate the 85/86 1000s highly. Does that make sense or should i open up my search ?

Also, what are the primary differences between Koga Miyata's different touring models? For instance in 1986 they offered Randonneur Extra, Randonneur, Gran Tourer, Traveller, Adventure. From what i've gathered, the 1985 randonneur extra is a good bet, but does it make sense to hold out for that model or if I come across a Traveller from that year should i go for it ? Here's a link to the Koga catalogs, but i can't read dutch so i'm not sure what they're getting at (www)restoration.bike/bike-catalogs/koga-miyata-catalogs/

My interest in randonneurs is purely from the logic that I want to be able to haul things around, and I figure a touring bike, if you can ride it that far, it ought to be perfect as a city bike. I also live in a somewhat hilly area of Paris. Is this misguided?

I measure 1m87 and am looking for a 60cm. It also seems like Koga's run a bit small.. any insight on sizing ?

While waiting for this bike I bought a 1978 Nishiki 'Master' , 60 cm, locally. Compared to the fuji that I had i find it sluggish and i've never had a bike slide out so much while braking. I couldn't find any information about that model Nishiki on here, but if you all have any insights I'd be curious. I'm pretty new to vintage bikes. I continue to mess with the set up, but i don't love this bike. Maybe it needs a little more love.

Ive got a lot of questions in there don't feel oblidged to tackle all of them -- thanks for any insights I appreciate it !
First- I can't stress enough to place all the weight on non-fixie 's answer. You're in the birthplace of the randonneur bike.

Second- The Fuji Del Rey is a mid-level sport tourer- compared to the Miyata 1000 as a full-on touring bike. It's going to be a little heavier, it's going to be a little longer, it's going to be a little more doggy unloaded AND it's going to be a freakin' theft magnet. My 1990 M1000LT is a really stout bike- it's great, while it won't win any speed or nimbleness competitions- it handles front and rear panniers quite well- I haven't had this one out for any real tour- but it handles better with the same load than either my Trek 620 or 720- the tradeoff is that it's heavier and more... "sturdy." People are attracted to the M1000 because of the Sheldon recommendation... some of the things that make it 'one of the finest off the shelf touring bikes' won't make it a good, sporty general purpose bike.

While looking at specs is really never the final answer, you can get an idea of a bike based on the specs. If you can't find a sweet "rando" bike in Paris (!?!?!?) get an idea of what a sport tourer is- the head tube and seat tube angles and the chain stay length... and then make sure you've got rack/fender eyelets. If you find a bike/frame you like, you can always change out parts. But, you're in Paris.

Good luck!!!
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Old 04-28-23, 02:18 PM
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I've got a Cityliner. I'm pretty sure its got similar tubes and construction details to the Miyata 1000, but with a Hybrids geometry, having a relatively long top tube, high bottom bracket and a high fork trail. It fits 40mm tires and fenders with out much blacksmithing which is nice. Its kind of "sporty" for touring though.

What I would I would do is find a geometry chart for the vintage Miyata 1000 your trying to emulate, and then google up the Koga Miyata catalogs. As I remember they are found in a couple different places, and are spotty as far as publishing the geometry's. I dug around enough to confirm that I have a very nice Hybrid, and that a lot of the Koga's have similar geometry. Happy hunting.
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Old 04-28-23, 02:44 PM
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I glanced at those Koga-Miyata catalogs, and I am struck by how different the Koga Randonneur line was from the US market Miyatas. It wasn't until '85 that the Kogas got canti brakes instead of sidepull calipers, whereas the US market Miyata 1000's had canti brakes going back to (at least ) '78.
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Old 04-28-23, 02:51 PM
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Echoing the above, you couldn't be in a better place to find a beautiful randonneuring bike. I would also look at the differences between randonneur bikes and touring bikes to see if those differences matter to you, because they are not the same though there is overlap in features and people often conflate the two terms. I don't know much about the KM randonneur line but it does seem to me that they were using this term for their touring line.
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Old 04-28-23, 04:24 PM
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I wonder if the Japanese made bikes for the "French Market"?

There are Japanese "Home Market" bikes that are very Franco-Randonneuse-esque.
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Old 04-28-23, 04:57 PM
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I would agree being in France you will get a much better deal on a home grown French bike. For really nice budget friendly bike I would suggest you look at some of Motobecan and Gitane models for a classic light tour bike I like Gitane Hostelers with the cool matching racks and fenders.
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Old 04-28-23, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Before you do anything you might regret later: check out the history of the randonneur type bicycle and the role the French played in its development (spoiler: they invented it).

You are in Paris, man! The city that spawned some of the best randonneurs ever! Alex Singer, René Herse are both Parisian brands. And if those are outside your budget (they are outside mine, unfortunately) look for the lesser known French brands. Spend some time researching on the interwebs and look what's for sale on ebay.fr and leboncoin.fr. I am sure you can do better than to buy a Koga-Miyata.

Oh, and unless your legs are particularly short for your body length, 60cm is probably too small. I measure 1.84 with an 89cm cycling inseam and ride 64cm randonneurs for a nice "French fit".
Oh my the first alex singer i came across was this one selling for 400 euros (www)ebay.fr/itm/125766375378?var=0 , in general my price range is under 1000, preferably I'd like to find something for between 400-600.

The reason I gravitated towards japanese bike was due to my experience with the fuji and a respect Japanese craftsmanship in general.. but after your comment i'm excited to start looking into the french bike market a bit more. Any favorite 'lesser known french brands' that have a nice sport touring bike? theres so many peugeots gitanes and mbks out here i'm not sure where to start. Are there some models to keep an eye out for ?

Thank you for the advice on sizing. I gravitated originally towards 58/60 based on size charts i found online. My inseam without shoes is 89, with shoes, 93. So maybe i should look for larger bikes for the french fit in paris I have the seat way up on this nishiki.
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Old 04-28-23, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
First- I can't stress enough to place all the weight on non-fixie 's answer. You're in the birthplace of the randonneur bike.

Second- The Fuji Del Rey is a mid-level sport tourer- compared to the Miyata 1000 as a full-on touring bike. It's going to be a little heavier, it's going to be a little longer, it's going to be a little more doggy unloaded AND it's going to be a freakin' theft magnet. My 1990 M1000LT is a really stout bike- it's great, while it won't win any speed or nimbleness competitions- it handles front and rear panniers quite well- I haven't had this one out for any real tour- but it handles better with the same load than either my Trek 620 or 720- the tradeoff is that it's heavier and more... "sturdy." People are attracted to the M1000 because of the Sheldon recommendation... some of the things that make it 'one of the finest off the shelf touring bikes' won't make it a good, sporty general purpose bike.

While looking at specs is really never the final answer, you can get an idea of a bike based on the specs. If you can't find a sweet "rando" bike in Paris (!?!?!?) get an idea of what a sport tourer is- the head tube and seat tube angles and the chain stay length... and then make sure you've got rack/fender eyelets. If you find a bike/frame you like, you can always change out parts. But, you're in Paris.

Good luck!!!
Thank you for this input. I really liked the reactivity of the Fuji, it did feel a bit 'nimble' so to speak, but also solid. I'll do some more research regarding 'sport tourers' in the french market
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Old 04-28-23, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by zukahn1
I would agree being in France you will get a much better deal on a home grown French bike. For really nice budget friendly bike I would suggest you look at some of Motobecan and Gitane models for a classic light tour bike I like Gitane Hostelers with the cool matching racks and fenders.
Will do : )
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Old 04-28-23, 07:32 PM
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toutokay Here's a potentially useful thread to check out. Show your classic sports touring bicycle
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Old 04-29-23, 12:33 PM
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[QUOTE=Piff;22874453]toutokay Here's a potentially useful thread to check out. /QUOTE]

Thanks yes I've been looking through that one as well as:

"Show us your french bikes" ___.classic-vintage/612294-show-your-french-bikes
"Top vintage sport touring rando bikes" _____.classic-vintage/1247872-top-vintage-sport-touring-rando-bikes-1980s-4
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Old 05-02-23, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by toutokay
Oh my the first alex singer i came across was this one selling for 400 euros (www)ebay.fr/itm/125766375378?var=0 , in general my price range is under 1000, preferably I'd like to find something for between 400-600.

The reason I gravitated towards japanese bike was due to my experience with the fuji and a respect Japanese craftsmanship in general.. but after your comment i'm excited to start looking into the french bike market a bit more. Any favorite 'lesser known french brands' that have a nice sport touring bike? theres so many peugeots gitanes and mbks out here i'm not sure where to start. Are there some models to keep an eye out for ?

Thank you for the advice on sizing. I gravitated originally towards 58/60 based on size charts i found online. My inseam without shoes is 89, with shoes, 93. So maybe i should look for larger bikes for the french fit in paris I have the seat way up on this nishiki.
I just realized I haven't answered your questions.

For an overview of French randonneurs and porteurs there is a nice thread over at the Retrobike forum: Vintage French randonneuer's and porteurs. Worth checking out all 132 (fellow member Guinessisgoodforyou made a real effort ) pages. While a Singer or Herse will probably not fit the budget, a nice D. Salmon or Méral just might.

WRT size, this is what a 64cm frame looks like for an 89cm cycling inseam:



Which brings me to one French option which might be of interest to you. I recently bought a 1988 Peugeot Normandie, technically known as the P 531 W because of its Reynolds 531 main triangle.

The 66cm (!) frame needs work, but the DEORE groupset is all there and it was €125. My summer project for this year:



And for reference, I do like my Koga-Miyatas. This is a 1985 63cm Koga-Miyata Randonneur I am using as a test bed for parts (and taking on vacation trips while I'm at it, this picture was taken in Italy last year):


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Old 05-03-23, 11:30 AM
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non-fixie Thanks for this reply. I'm going through the retrobike thread a bit. Another question that you might have some perspective on, that isn't too clear to me from my research... a lot of these french randonneurs are from the 70s (during the 'bike boom' ?) I had it in my head that it would be best to find a bike from the mid 80s (because people seemed to talked highly of mid 80s japanese bikes). I can't quite tell if the interest in some of these 70s french bikes is from a collector's frame of mind-- rarity, novelty, aesthetics, etc or because they ride just as well or better than later models.. does it make as much sense to ride a nice bike from the 70s as a daily bike as it would a nice bike from the 80s? Or is it practical to keep my search more so in the 80s? With regards to the french bikes, there seem to be a lot of option pre 80s, and much less post from my searches. Personally, I like the feeling of steel frame bikes, down tube shifters etc, which is why i'm not looking to far into the 90s, but I hesistate to buy something from the 70s as my go-to bike. Then again my Nishiki is a 1978 i think.

Those are some pretty bikes ! Thanks for the references. I notice you have the seat post fairly level with the handlebars on the 64. I've got my handlebars post all the way up and am still about 5-10cm above them with the seat post and am somewhat frequently preparing myself for a forward somesault if i i need to brake quickly on a descent. Another reason to size up ... Maybe i'll post a picture of my Nishiki soon : )

Do you use these randonneurs as daily commuters or just for longer trips ? I.e. mostly loaded ?

Thanks
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Old 05-04-23, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by toutokay
non-fixie Thanks for this reply. I'm going through the retrobike thread a bit. Another question that you might have some perspective on, that isn't too clear to me from my research... a lot of these french randonneurs are from the 70s (during the 'bike boom' ?) I had it in my head that it would be best to find a bike from the mid 80s (because people seemed to talked highly of mid 80s japanese bikes). I can't quite tell if the interest in some of these 70s french bikes is from a collector's frame of mind-- rarity, novelty, aesthetics, etc or because they ride just as well or better than later models.. does it make as much sense to ride a nice bike from the 70s as a daily bike as it would a nice bike from the 80s? Or is it practical to keep my search more so in the 80s? With regards to the french bikes, there seem to be a lot of option pre 80s, and much less post from my searches. Personally, I like the feeling of steel frame bikes, down tube shifters etc, which is why i'm not looking to far into the 90s, but I hesistate to buy something from the 70s as my go-to bike. Then again my Nishiki is a 1978 i think.

Those are some pretty bikes ! Thanks for the references. I notice you have the seat post fairly level with the handlebars on the 64. I've got my handlebars post all the way up and am still about 5-10cm above them with the seat post and am somewhat frequently preparing myself for a forward somesault if i i need to brake quickly on a descent. Another reason to size up ... Maybe i'll post a picture of my Nishiki soon : )

Do you use these randonneurs as daily commuters or just for longer trips ? I.e. mostly loaded ?

Thanks
I suggest you broaden your reseach to "world", as opposed to "North America". In the US, bicycle development more or less came to a standstill in the early 20th century. Had something to do with a tire kartel and automobile development. Bicyles became childrens' toys. When people again became interested in the early seventies, there was no-one left who actually remembered or knew what a decent bike looked and felt like. Which led to an influx of rather crappy bikes (Hey, drop bars, must be a racing bike!) which later on created a perception of seventies bikes being crappy.

In western Europe, like France, Belgium, Italy and Holland, there were no tire kartel and affordable automobiles and the bicycle remained an important means of transport, and kept being developed. Also, racing them was much more important than in the US. Bicycle racing was always a professional sport in Europe, and a way many a young man to escape from poverty.

The result was that in the 1970's the European market for bicycles for adults was probably half a century ahead of that in the US. So what was shipped to the US during the bicycle boom was mainly bottom-of-the-barrel stuff, because Americans would buy it. European manufacturers had a field day.

So, what was available in the US during the seventies wasn't particularly good. But what was available in European countries was on another level: in those markets demands were for commuter bikes that would last a lifetime and racing bikes that would actually win races. Budgets were small after WWII, so looks didn't matter much. People wanted the functionally best they could get for their money. European bikes from the 1950's are probably better than what was sold in the US in the 1970's.

Please be aware that the above is a generalization, and may not apply in specific cases.

WRT your other questions: the bars being close to level with the saddle is a comfort thing. It enables one to ride long distances on mediocre roads in relative comfort. If you look at the way racing bikes were set up BITD when the Tour de France and the Giro d'Italia were still made up of mostly unpaved roads, you'll see what I mean. Ditto for a longer wheelbase and slightly more relaxed frame angles.

My touring bikes, like the Gazelle above, are mostly used for vacation trips. Preferably in southern France and Italy, where I can still find those classic roads that were typical for the road infrastructure in postwar Europe, such as the strade bianchi in Italy.

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Old 05-06-23, 03:13 PM
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Thanks for this context ! You're opening my eyes me to a European bike history that i had never really considered but seems logical now considering european infrastructure/culture (in addition i guess to whatever happened with those tire barons .. ) Now i'm also curious to explore what was going on with british / italian bikes in addition to the french in the 20th century.. but i'll save that for another thread / my own research. Are you based in Europe i guess ?
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Old 05-06-23, 03:19 PM
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I'm still curious , for the miyata heads on here, about the differences between the various koga miyata 1980s touring series -- traveller vs gran tourer vs randonneur models etc ? And perhaps their non-koga equivalents (or is that misguided to compare the two directly ? ) Any insights ?
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Old 05-08-23, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by toutokay
I'm still curious , for the miyata heads on here, about the differences between the various koga miyata 1980s touring series -- traveller vs gran tourer vs randonneur models etc ? And perhaps their non-koga equivalents (or is that misguided to compare the two directly ? ) Any insights ?
I might have been a bit quiet lately, but there is always the Show us your Koga-Miyata! thread with lots of scans from me.

Also, I wrote up this short essay a few years ago:
Originally Posted by JaccoW
The difference between the Randonneur and the WorldTraveller depends a bit on the year.
  • In 1987 the Randonneur was the fancier drop bar model with triple butted tubing whereas the WorldTraveller had double butted tubing. Pricewise; RandonneurExtra NLG 2695.- > Randonneur NLG 2395.- > WorldTraveller NLG 1895.- > Traveller NLG 1695.-
  • In 1989 the Randonneur has disappeared and the WorldTraveller seems to have taken its place in the lineup. Pricewise: RandonneurExtra NLG 2850.- > WorldTraveller NLG 2240.- > RoadRunner NLG1830.-
  • For the 1991 to 1993 period I cannot find much detailed data because the brochures were not scanned completely. The RandonneurExtra and the WorldTraveller look like very similar frames but the Extra is the higher-end model adjusted to "more extreme requirements", chrome socks and lighter overal weight.
  • In 1994 the Randonneur is back and the place of the WorldTraveller seems to have been taken by the GloveTraveller. Both models have oversized FM-1 STB frames and forks, straight bars and 32-622 wheels. With the GlobeTraveller having a stronger fork and more of a focus on unpaved roads or trekking and the Randonneur more of a touring model.
  • This continues to 1998 with the GlobeTraveller bulking up a bit for use as a heavy-duty touring frame and the Randonneur being the lighter touring model.
  • In 1999 the WorldTraveller is reintroduced as a 26 inch wheeled alternative to the GlobeTraveller (both in Alloy 7005 now) with the Randonneur still a lugged FM-1 STB frame. Pricewise; GlobeTraveller NLG 3995.- > WorldTraveller NLG 3495.- > Randonneur NLG 3395.- > Traveller NLG 2995.-
I have gathered more information in a sheet with charts and everything but I need some time to write all of that down and double check some things.
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Old 05-08-23, 12:05 PM
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If you are still set on a Koga Miyata, shipping of this to you from Poland than it would be to me:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256058436040
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Old 05-09-23, 03:49 AM
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Overdoing projects
 
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Which brings me to one French option which might be of interest to you. I recently bought a 1988 Peugeot Normandie, technically known as the P 531 W because of its Reynolds 531 main triangle.

The 66cm (!) frame needs work, but the DEORE groupset is all there and it was €125. My summer project for this year:

And people are saying I'm the one hoarding all the good 66cm bikes here.

That's a great looking bike non-fixie. I kind of want to build a lighter rando bike some time and the older, lighter 80's Randonneur Extras are perfect for that. alexnagui has been sending me several models already. But this would definitely be right down my alley.

toutokay , if you like the fancy pre-90's RandonneurExtra models do keep an eye out for the 90's Terraliner, Adventure and RoadGentleman models. I got to ride a 1996 Adventure in a gorgeous maroon color last year that I picked up for tomhaegler . Lots of pictures here. Even though it was "just" a double butted frame it was still really nimble and fast. And if you can read them I have detailed pictures of the geometry.

The fun thing about the 90's is that most of the high-end models were aluminum frames... but one step below was often triple-butted chromoly steel. Plus the allow for wider 38+mm tyres with fenders. So if you're looking for a solid lightweight bike for everyday use these are great options.
Just don't overload them. They're not tourers.
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Old 05-09-23, 03:57 AM
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Completely forgot his thread, 1996 Koga Miyata "Adventure" Project by TomHaegler.

From this:


To this:
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Old 05-19-23, 10:16 AM
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Hello all--

So, based on some of the input on here a bought a french bike locally in Paris. Here's a picture, 62.5 cm frame, but it's a bit of a mystery frame : ). I believe the frame was repainted. It only says 'D. Frick' which does not seem to be a bike manufacturer. The frame is quite light. Maybe not exactly a sports tourer but more so a racing bike but i'll be adding a back rack to it soon. t's quite fun riding it around and feels like a much nicer fit than the Nishiki that i was using, which felt a bit heavy and slow to me. The bike sellers told me the frame is a 'CNC Saint Etienne,' but they were a bit hesitant to tell me the maker and after looking at some pictures of those bikes online i'm not so sure as i'm not seeing any matches. I don't see any serial numbers or any other identifying attributes on the frame, any ideas?

My method of indentification is mostly by comparing the metal work where the seat stay meats the top tube, (the joinery so to speak, which does not make any CNC specials or Saint Etienne's that i've seen ... ) And the metal work where the down tube meets the head tube. ... I realize this changes from model to model year to year for some brands, but is this is a good way of going about finding a match ?

Here's what i know about the bike:

Reynolds 531 Frame

Huret titanium assembly

Durace shimano brakes

Stronglight crankset

Kyoto pedals

Mavic wheel










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Old 05-19-23, 11:48 AM
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Also, here's my 1978 Nishiki 'Master', 60 cm. The only information i could find about this particular model Nishki ('Master", not 'Trim Master') was from an auction site where it was selling for about 1000 euros in original condition which was surprising as I picked it up for a couple hundred, though not perfect condition... Recently broke the saddle : (



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