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Triple crank bolt woes

Old 05-10-23, 03:56 PM
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Triple crank bolt woes

The small ring bolts should be solid and the back should poke through to the front like this:





but I ordered a set, with the right part number according to the 1973 campy catalogue and I got these:





what is really going on?

are these meant for some sort of Willowizer triple or something?
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Old 05-10-23, 04:43 PM
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THOSE are some seriously rare bolts. The are for the Campy triple with the smallest ring of 42T

Part #830-831-832 See first pic below.

what you want is the Campagnolo inner ring adapter and bolt part # 818 - 761 - see Pic #2

Apparently there are Avocet and possibly Spiedel parts that also fit.

Jim Merz can make you some real spiffy ones out of stainless or titanium

good luck.

/markp


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Old 05-10-23, 05:10 PM
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I guess I've only seen 42 as the smaller chain ring.

The "RARE" set I have then is meant for a double and turn it into a triple. Can you give me an example of the three tooth count one should use?
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Old 05-10-23, 06:02 PM
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42-48-54?
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Old 05-10-23, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
I guess I've only seen 42 as the smaller chain ring.

The "RARE" set I have then is meant for a double and turn it into a triple. Can you give me an example of the three tooth count one should use?
Been there ... done that with two sets of Sugino Mighty Compe (Campag. clone) cranks. I still have 10 of the triple-stack bolts with spacers, contemplating redeploying one set of 5 to the Carlton.

I geared my bikes 48-45-42 / 13-16-19-23-26, which makes a really nice 14-speed (no large-large cross-chaining) setup, with a range of 44 to 100 gear-inches. (Think of it as 1/3 step, instead of 1/2 step.) One of my Bikecology customers in 1973 converted his 54-47 double to a 54-50-47 triple, keeping the original 5-speed 14-18-22-27-34 freewheel.
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Old 05-10-23, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
Can you give me an example of the three tooth count one should use?
single chain ring sandwiched with 2 chain guards for cyclocross

https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...29f79&Enum=115
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Old 05-10-23, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
THOSE are some seriously rare bolts. The are for the Campy triple with the smallest ring of 42T

Part #830-831-832 See first pic below.

what you want is the Campagnolo inner ring adapter and bolt part # 818 - 761 - see Pic #2

Apparently there are Avocet and possibly Spiedel parts that also fit.

Jim Merz can make you some real spiffy ones out of stainless or titanium

good luck.

/markp

If you go Avocet, be aware it's Avocet. 40 years ago I broke those inner triple bolts when the set was near new just straining to go up a steep pitch as a long and skinny 150 pounder. Sucked because it took me completely by surprise. I was tightly strapped in and unable to plan my fall and went to the went to the pavement the long way.

Those cranks did a 20 year hibernation in a box. Pulled them out to get a new-to-me frame up and running. Three rides in, the crank broke through the pedal threads (with me at that same hefty weight).
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Old 05-10-23, 09:15 PM
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I have the answer. I will find it for you. Very tricky, but someone has come up with a McMaster Carr solution that I have tweaked. Will take about a day.


Originally Posted by Robvolz
The small ring bolts should be solid and the back should poke through to the front like this:





but I ordered a set, with the right part number according to the 1973 campy catalogue and I got these:





what is really going on?

are these meant for some sort of Willowizer triple or something?
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Old 05-10-23, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
The small ring bolts should be solid and the back should poke through to the front like this:





but I ordered a set, with the right part number according to the 1973 campy catalogue and I got these:





what is really going on?

are these meant for some sort of Willowizer triple or something?
What you got are triple-length bolts for Stronglight-99/Sakae Ringyo 86mm BCD cranks. What you need are #761 nut and #818 standoff. Avocet/Ofmega triple bolts and standoffs will also work.

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Old 05-11-23, 02:05 PM
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Hey John. I have the campy parts 830, 831 and 832 as shown in the catalogue pic posted by Mark P of the Pacific NW.

They turn any campy Strada double cranks into a triple as long as the smallest chainring you use is a 42 tooth (which is crazy in my book, because every stock campy crankset I've ever bought, including new in the box always came with 52t and 42t).

To me, these solve a problem that doesn't exist. I've never really wished I had a 52, 48, 42 combo since that math can be pretty much created with the rear cluster.


That said, I still need what I need; parts #818 and 761. If anybody wants to trade. Please let me know.
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Old 05-11-23, 02:54 PM
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as promised

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Old 05-11-23, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
Hey John. I have the campy parts 830, 831 and 832 as shown in the catalogue pic posted by Mark P of the Pacific NW.

They turn any campy Strada double cranks into a triple as long as the smallest chainring you use is a 42 tooth (which is crazy in my book, because every stock campy crankset I've ever bought, including new in the box always came with 52t and 42t).

To me, these solve a problem that doesn't exist. I've never really wished I had a 52, 48, 42 combo since that math can be pretty much created with the rear cluster.


That said, I still need what I need; parts #818 and 761. If anybody wants to trade. Please let me know.
All this, non existing need, hens teeth 818's, 754's can be ground or cut down if need be and they are really just single ring bolts that aren't seen from the outside so any short chainring bolts can work.

If you have to have the real deal, buckle up buttercup.

They can easily go for $150 when you can find them, Jim may make them for less but I doubt it.

They still only get you down to 36T with out a special ring so the benefit is low IMO.
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Old 05-11-23, 10:14 PM
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Back in the 1970s I kept two inner rings for my 2x5 Sugino Mighty setup, so that I could easily switch between 50-47 / 14-16-18-20-23-26 for flatlands half-step and 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23-26 for hills.
With the long stack bolts I could have done 53-50-42, using the outer and middle chainrings for half-step, and the middle and inner for alpine (1.5-step). I tried to do 53-50-39 with Campag. Veloce, but the spider was too thick to accommodate a 3-tooth drop between the two outers, without the chain snagging between them. I settled for a 53-42-39 half-step-plus-overdrive setup, which worked OK.
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Old 05-12-23, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Robvolz
Hey John. I have the campy parts 830, 831 and 832 as shown in the catalogue pic posted by Mark P of the Pacific NW.

They turn any campy Strada double cranks into a triple as long as the smallest chainring you use is a 42 tooth (which is crazy in my book, because every stock campy crankset I've ever bought, including new in the box always came with 52t and 42t).

To me, these solve a problem that doesn't exist. I've never really wished I had a 52, 48, 42 combo since that math can be pretty much created with the rear cluster.
The triple crankset is a "touring" set if you've got the legs for it. Mine is the Avocet/Ofmega version.

Having the 144 on the outside kind of limits your options for lower gearing- after a while I found some other rings- IIRC something like 48 and 42 and a 28 granny.

1986 Trek 400 Elance by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


Avocet.Stronglight_zpsxp6csyr4 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
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Old 05-12-23, 03:26 PM
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Golden Boy….That is a very attractive set-up!!
I love the options the pre-drilled spider gives you.


My triple campy crank is pre-drilled to accept a campy 36 tooth granny chain-ring.

I'm just seeking a method to attach. I really like the McMaster-Carr answer. I owe that guy a nice bottle!!
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Old 05-12-23, 06:53 PM
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I have genuine Campagnolo inner chainring stand off mounts. I'll have to dig them out to make sure. Jim
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Old 05-12-23, 09:27 PM
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I was in need of some 8 mm ID spacers for the inner chainring for a triple crank on one of my bikes. I have a bunch of Wheels Mfg 10 mm ID spacers in various thicknesses, but they're too big for the 8 mm triple bolts alone. I finally found something that would work at an affordable price - 5/16" ID AN960 stainless narrow flat washers. The OD is small enough to not interfere with the chain, the ID is a near-perfect fit for 8 mm, and the 1.5 mm thickness makes it easy to stack them for the desired offset. I purchased them from Copper State Bolt & Nut, as they're a great in-town source for specialty fasteners, but may be available from other vendors.

https://copperstate.com/shop/5637158...cts#15AW3-031/
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Old 05-12-23, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
Having the 144 on the outside kind of limits your options for lower gearing- after a while I found some other rings- IIRC something like 48 and 42 and a 28 granny.

1986 Trek 400 Elance by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
This is why I argue that although TA pioneered small-chainring triples (OK, Stronglight too), and Avocet optimized them, it was the Sugino Aero Tour and its combination of 110 mm outer BCD and 74 mm inner BCD that blew open the triple market to the masses. The Avocet was groundbreaking and prettier than the predecessors, but as you note still only allows a 42 tooth middle. The Sugino's use of the common BMX 110 BCD really opened up options.
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Old 05-13-23, 09:18 AM
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Two genuine Campagnolo triple crank stand off boss sets. The first photo shows 5 NOS bosses, $125 per set as shown. The 2nd photo shows a set with 2 bosses that have been removed from a crank using a vise grip plier, the other 3 look to be NOS. This set is perfectly serviceable, the only issue is outer surface is marred on 2 bosses as shown. The mounting bolts are not included, you need Pista bolts. Road bolts from any Campy copy cranks will fit, but need to be shortened. This set is $85. Shipping inside the USA will be about $5. PM me.
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Old 05-13-23, 09:53 AM
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Oh. (smacks head)
The Campagnolo cranks use a smaller M6 thread in the crankarm, and the usual M8 for the chainring. I missed that earlier.
I'd stand corrected, but I just got comfortable...
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Old 05-13-23, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
This is why I argue that although TA pioneered small-chainring triples (OK, Stronglight too), and Avocet optimized them, it was the Sugino Aero Tour and its combination of 110 mm outer BCD and 74 mm inner BCD that blew open the triple market to the masses. The Avocet was groundbreaking and prettier than the predecessors, but as you note still only allows a 42 tooth middle. The Sugino's use of the common BMX 110 BCD really opened up options.
Thank you!

That Avocet crank is really cool and the arms are so gracile- but as 79pmooney mentioned- it's not particularly uncommon to hear of the arms breaking by the pedal threads. I'm not a strong rider, and I've packed on some pounds since I built this- but I do keep an eye on that area for any abnormalities.

The Sugino AT is the cat's pyjamas. I think that's *THE* triple; although the Shimano FC6206 is really nice- the AT was cold forged and had those relatively gracile arms- by the time the XT cranks come, they have those wide arms that don't look as sleek.
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Old 05-13-23, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
Thank you!

That Avocet crank is really cool and the arms are so gracile- but as 79pmooney mentioned- it's not particularly uncommon to hear of the arms breaking by the pedal threads. I'm not a strong rider, and I've packed on some pounds since I built this- but I do keep an eye on that area for any abnormalities.

The Sugino AT is the cat's pyjamas. I think that's *THE* triple; although the Shimano FC6206 is really nice- the AT was cold forged and had those relatively gracile arms- by the time the XT cranks come, they have those wide arms that don't look as sleek.
Those ATs are really what I think of when touring cranks come to mind. Oddly enough I usually am using a cyclotourist style crank when I actually tour. But really sugino got it perfect.
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Old 05-13-23, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
The Avocet was groundbreaking and prettier than the predecessors, but as you note still only allows a 42 tooth middle.
Well, 41T, if you can find one. FWIW, Campagnolo, Avocet/Ofmega, and TA made 41T, 144mm BCD rings, and they do turn up occasionally.

One problem with a 41T ring on a 144mm BCD arm is that the chain can bump up against the spider. Avocet/Ofmega machined their arms to provide a little extra clearance for a 41T ring:
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