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Mavic Starfish triple square taper crank bb needed

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Mavic Starfish triple square taper crank bb needed

Old 05-15-23, 06:42 AM
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Mavic Starfish triple square taper crank bb needed

I bought a cool Mavic “starfish” triple crank that will be fun to set up & use on any number of retro racing or touring triple road bike builds that I’m backlogged with. Here is a photo of the crank:




I’m needing to spec the correct square taper BB for it. Can anyone advise on if the square taper bb should be JIS or ISO? Also, I plan to try some square taper bb’s I have and see what works by trial and error but thought I would ask if anyone here has ever run the triple version of this crank? And what length axle do you recall it took?
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Old 05-15-23, 09:11 AM
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I cannot answer your questions specifically. You also do not mention if it is going on a "French" bike or not, however I have had good luck sourcing French oriented bottom brackets from Velo Orange.
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Old 05-15-23, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Reynolds 531
I cannot answer your questions specifically. You also do not mention if it is going on a "French" bike or not, however I have had good luck sourcing French oriented bottom brackets from Velo Orange.
Not French specific. Will just be mounted on standard English 68mm threaded bottom bracket.
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Old 05-15-23, 09:31 AM
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https://lecycleur.com/parts/history-...tarfish-crank/
https://lecycleur.com/parts/mavic-bottom-bracket/
Interesting articles, but unfortunately do not answer all your questions
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Old 05-15-23, 09:54 AM
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I've never seen that crank in a triple ring version, but Mavic threadless cartridges came in triple lengths. Here's the Sutherland's page on them:
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Old 05-15-23, 10:39 AM
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Reynolds 531 & JohnDThompson - thanks for the resources!

I was aware of the Mavic bottom bracket with the chamfered lockring requiring a chamfer be cut into the BB shell. This is most certainly not anything I want to do since it is irreversible and removes precious threads permanently from the bottom bracket shell.

Based on the bottom bracket chart provided it would appear that the best match might be an ISO (Campy taper) 119mm axle length.

‘’This gives me something to go on for sure. I plan to check and see if OmniRacer has an ISO 119 available…

Also, as lovely as the finish of these Starfish cranks are, they seem exceptionally vulnerable to clear coat wear showing scratches super easily. I would like to apply a “crankskin” type of wrap for protection. Whatever wrap I would deploy needs to cover the starfish spider, not just the crank arms. Could anyone comment on this or give a link to a shrink wrap product I could use?
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Old 05-15-23, 10:43 AM
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.
...I think you'll need to dry fit a couple that are close to those Mavic specs of 119-123 to figure it out.
That's what I always end up doing, anyway. I just did one of these (different triple crank), and I got it on the second try.
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Old 05-15-23, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61

I was aware of the Mavic bottom bracket with the chamfered lockring requiring a chamfer be cut into the BB shell. This is most certainly not anything I want to do since it is irreversible and removes precious threads permanently from the bottom bracket shell.
...I removed one of these Mavic BB units once, and threw it away. The chamfered BB shell edge is not as bad as it seems, and it's pretty easy to ignore it if you are replacing with some other, more recent sealed BB unit. If you really want to, it's simple enough to reface the BB shell in the frame to get rid of it. But they were not a great design to begin with.
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Old 05-15-23, 11:21 AM
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yes, a 119-123 mm BB will do the trick.

I'd suggest a Phil since they can be laterally adjusted to get the chainline as good as you can get it

You could try half a dozen spindles before finding the one that is right. Just get the Phil in a 119 length and be done with it

/markp
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Old 05-15-23, 11:45 AM
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mpetry912 - I went to the Phil website and I did not see a 119 ISO bottom bracket option, could you provide a link?
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Old 05-15-23, 12:09 PM
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another thot: I have found Miche sealed BB units to be of decent quality and have ISO spindle tapers, but not many lengths available. If you can find one with the length you need (119) I bet you'll like the price.
Unfortunately I believe that most of the VO units use JIS spindle tapers, but you'd need to investigate.

EDIT: did a bit of looking (after posting) and the news is that Miche now also sell units with JIS spindles so you need to read the fine print.
Theirs used to be all ISO but now could be either. Also they used to sell a "Primato" with a 122mm spindle length, but never was in big demand so hard to find a vendor with that size in stock, and now might be even harder.
AND since this is an Italian brand (but production could be in Asia or elsewhere, mine had Slovakian sealed cart bearings!) the threading might be either ITAL or BSC/ISO so again: read carefully.

Last edited by unworthy1; 05-15-23 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 05-15-23, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
mpetry912 - I went to the Phil website and I did not see a 119 ISO bottom bracket option, could you provide a link?
suggest you email sales@philwood.com or call them on 408 298 1540

if you do a custom order ask for a + 3mm offset in favor of the drive side (my recommendation for vintage cranks)

And let's not get into a discussion of JIS vs Campagnolo taper. that horse was beat to death a long time ago.

you can also try ebay

/markp


Last edited by mpetry912; 05-15-23 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 05-15-23, 05:26 PM
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JIS vs ISO? Got a 631 crankset new from Rivendale in 97 or so. Didn’t know anything about crank tapers, and found a Dura Ace sealed bb in what seemed to be the right length. Put it on, it worked. No problems in the intervening years.
If it helps, here are the instructions came with the crank.


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Old 05-16-23, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61
Reynolds 531 & JohnDThompson - thanks for the resources!

I was aware of the Mavic bottom bracket with the chamfered lockring requiring a chamfer be cut into the BB shell. This is most certainly not anything I want to do since it is irreversible and removes precious threads permanently from the bottom bracket shell.
The chamfering only removes 2mm of thread (2 threads) from the shell, leaving it still functional for threaded cups.



In any case, the Mavic specs should give you an idea of what to look for in any bottom bracket you eventually decide to use.
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Old 05-16-23, 10:10 AM
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I thought that the Japanese JIS taper standard was taken from the old French taper standard. Unless I am wrong about this, that would suggest to me that a Mavic crank would likely be based on the JIS standard. However, I very well could be wrong, so do not take this as gospel unless and until someone with better knowledge of French stuff chimes in. Someone like verktyg , for instance.
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Old 05-16-23, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
I thought that the Japanese JIS taper standard was taken from the old French taper standard. Unless I am wrong about this, that would suggest to me that a Mavic crank would likely be based on the JIS standard. However, I very well could be wrong, so do not take this as gospel unless and until someone with better knowledge of French stuff chimes in. Someone like verktyg , for instance.

I sure hope someone chimes in on this. That crankset is too cool to not be ridden. I’m trying to pair it with a nice shifting triple FD. I may use it on a bike with SunTour Command paddle shifters.
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Old 05-16-23, 12:47 PM
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Got curious and surfed around.
They claim it's ISO: https://cicli-berlinetta.com/product...ade-in-france/

This might interest you: https://lecycleur.com/parts/mavic-bottom-bracket/
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Old 05-16-23, 01:51 PM
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back in the day the concept of Campagnolo vs JIS vs whatever taper just did not exist.

and if you think about how this interface works it should not matter that much, with the possible exception of "JIS Low Profile" spindle taper

the Phil tool (below) shows that the ISO and Campagnolo tapers are the same, there is a "JIS Low Profile" which I think was early Dura Ace, and everything else is JIS.

I would not worry too much about this.

/markp

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Old 05-16-23, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
back in the day the concept of Campagnolo vs JIS vs whatever taper just did not exist.

and if you think about how this interface works it should not matter that much, with the possible exception of "JIS Low Profile" spindle taper

the Phil tool (below) shows that the ISO and Campagnolo tapers are the same, there is a "JIS Low Profile" which I think was early Dura Ace, and everything else is JIS.

I would not worry too much about this.

/markp

Neat tool!

so if the literature for the Mavic crank specifies 119mm in “ISO”, it sounds like the “JIS” equivalent length is shorter by several millimeters?

Last edited by masi61; 05-16-23 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 05-16-23, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
Neat tool!

so if the literature for the Mavic crank specifies 119mm in “ISO”, it sounds like the “JIS” equivalent length is shorter my several millimeters?
It is really hard to give you direction, these cranks are pretty rare and so it's difficult to say. I think a 119 mm Phil with a +3 mm offset will be very close, and you can adjust it laterally.

The trick is to get the inner ring as close as possible to the chainstay (3 - 5mm) and in alignment with the center of the freewheel.

the variables are the design of the spider and how the rings mount with respect to the square taper broach, and also if the drive side arm is worn, causing it to seat deeper on the spindle.

/markp
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Old 05-16-23, 06:18 PM
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JIS spindle will be effectively 2 or 2.5mm longer on each end vs. ISO.

Old Campag is closer to ISO than to JIS, so perhaps only 1mm longer in effective length than ISO.

Campag cartridge BB's are ISO, as are Sugino Mighty and Suntour Sprint and Superbe (pre-1990 or so).

Old Stronglight are also smaller at the end of the taper much like ISO.

If you set/fix your caliper to a smaller taper's end dimension as shown, you can then apply the fixed caliper to any smaller taper to see how far further up the taper that any crank will reside. Very easy to compare tapers this way!

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