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Not vintage, but does this guy qualify as classic?

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Not vintage, but does this guy qualify as classic?

Old 05-16-23, 07:58 AM
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Not vintage, but does this guy qualify as classic?

I hope to be riding it in a week or so. Dave receives the final handful of parts today, supposedly, and then he'll assemble, disassemble, and ship. Been waiting 10 months or so.

Last edited by eljayski; 05-16-23 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 05-16-23, 08:19 AM
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Who cares?
That’s a stunner!
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Old 05-16-23, 08:34 AM
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Post photos of the completed build when you're done!
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Old 05-16-23, 08:36 AM
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Beautiful
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Old 05-16-23, 08:48 AM
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it is definitely a "KOF" keeper of the flame type bike.

I personally am not a fan of that stay arrangement but that's just me

but yes, built with classic methods and more or less classic materials - 853 right ?

post a pic when you have it assembled and riding. Nice color pick.

/markp
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Old 05-16-23, 08:51 AM
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Thread title fixed
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Old 05-16-23, 08:59 AM
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For sure! Several of us that have lucked into one of these post them here!

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Old 05-16-23, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912

I personally am not a fan of that stay arrangement but that's just me
Put a few miles in the saddle of one of these and you'll become one with those seatstays!
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Old 05-16-23, 09:53 AM
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Vintage? Perhaps not.

Classic? Is this a trick question? Hell yes.
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Old 05-16-23, 09:58 AM
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I, too, am not a fan of the aesthetics of those stays, and a Kirk is beyond my affordability. But, I sure would like to put some miles on one, for the experience, at least. The bike in original post has certainly got a classic look to it.
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Old 05-16-23, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
Put a few miles in the saddle of one of these and you'll become one with those seatstays!
I've never ridden a Kirk with the double-curve stays, but I've got a curly Hetchins... presumably they are somewhat similar in flex?
Perhaps my Brooks saddle just flexes a lot and exceeds the frame flex, but I haven't noticed the Hetchins being any more flexible than my bikes with straight stays.
The Hetchins does look good, and perhaps that is enough!

Interestingly... Dave Kirk has come up with a proper rear suspension that uses a curved seat stay. This was during his time at Serotta, and is labeled the DKS (Dave Kirk Suspension)...



It looks like a well thought out design... it has a pivot at the bottom to permit a significant amount of flex of the seat stay (which might crack a typical brazed connection), as well as having a strip of damping material attached to the stay. No idea what this cost, or how effective it was. If anyone knows of any review of it, please post it or provide a link.
Here's the rest of the pics:





Steve in Peoria
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Old 05-16-23, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
I've never ridden a Kirk with the double-curve stays, but I've got a curly Hetchins... presumably they are somewhat similar in flex?
Perhaps my Brooks saddle just flexes a lot and exceeds the frame flex, but I haven't noticed the Hetchins being any more flexible than my bikes with straight stays.
The Hetchins does look good, and perhaps that is enough!

Interestingly... Dave Kirk has come up with a proper rear suspension that uses a curved seat stay. This was during his time at Serotta, and is labeled the DKS (Dave Kirk Suspension)...



It looks like a well thought out design... it has a pivot at the bottom to permit a significant amount of flex of the seat stay (which might crack a typical brazed connection), as well as having a strip of damping material attached to the stay. No idea what this cost, or how effective it was. If anyone knows of any review of it, please post it or provide a link.
Here's the rest of the pics:

Steve in Peoria
Terraplane Seat Stays | Kirk Frameworks

Somewhere David also talks in depth about developing the DKS
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Old 05-16-23, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
Terraplane Seat Stays | Kirk Frameworks

Somewhere David also talks in depth about developing the DKS

I only know about the DKS suspension because of an interview that he did with Diane Lees/Jenks on the Outspoken Cyclist podcast. Not sure which interview it was...
this one?
or this one?

But I'm still curious to hear from someone who has ridden Dave's Terraplane stays, and especially someone who could compare it to other schemes to get a bit of suspension from curved tubes.
In this era of big tires, I suspect that a 32mm tire might provide more flex than a curved seat stay.

Steve in Peoria
(can't get anything bigger than a 25mm tire into the tight clearances on my '87 Hetchins)
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Old 05-17-23, 04:08 PM
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inching ever closer . . .

a photo from earlier today with the bike on a work stand in Dave's shop. Should ship to me tomorrow (Thu).

Know I need pedals and looks like a saddle, too
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Old 05-17-23, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by eljayski
a photo from earlier today with the bike on a work stand in Dave's shop. Should ship to me tomorrow (Thu).

Know I need pedals and looks like a saddle, too

Beautiful bike. I really like the colors on this.

Is there a particular significance for the red/white/blue bands(other than flag colors)?
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Old 05-17-23, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger M
Beautiful bike. I really like the colors on this.

Is there a particular significance for the red/white/blue bands(other than flag colors)?
Nope, just a nod to Old Glory. I would have preferred thinner bands, these remind me of the French Tricolor!

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Old 05-17-23, 06:11 PM
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The curved stays are sort of cool but what is his reasoning behind them? To sort of blunt rear stay rigidity?
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Old 05-18-23, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
The curved stays are sort of cool but what is his reasoning behind them? To sort of blunt rear stay rigidity?
according to his website:

The Terraplane seat stay design gives a very small amount of rear wheel movement that allows the rear wheel to better track over less than perfect pavement. With the wheel better stuck to the floor the bike will sprint, turn and brake better giving the bike a solid, predictable and hunkered down feeling like nothing else.
and....

While the Terraplane stays can give a slightly smoother ride they are primarily designed as a high performance option to give high performance riders an advantage during sprints, descents and high-speed corners.
so... not for comfort, but to keep from bouncing on rough roads quite as much.
I've seen these seat stays on his bikes back in 2009, so they were developed before bigger tires became common. I suspect that running a 28mm tire with conventional seat stays would provide similar results to the Terraplane stays and the 23mm tires that they were designed around.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 05-20-23, 07:07 PM
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Wow, that's a really nice bike.
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Old 05-20-23, 07:46 PM
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eljayski congrats, Glad your seeing the end of the tunnel, and wait until you ride it, I guarantee you will notice just going up and down the block to check positioning
I like the paint, but am sure your found out Joe bell time estimates require a bit of: Joe is an artist....he perceives time differently

I will repeat to all, if it works for you (interest, garage space, finanically, timing, etc) finding a builder whose work you like and you connect with a great expericence.

me of course I vote for Dave.

and if anyone is concerned about not meeting in person....don't Dave has it down to a science with measurements and questions and is quick to note anomolies
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Old 05-20-23, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
according to his website:



and....



so... not for comfort, but to keep from bouncing on rough roads quite as much.
I've seen these seat stays on his bikes back in 2009, so they were developed before bigger tires became common. I suspect that running a 28mm tire with conventional seat stays would provide similar results to the Terraplane stays and the 23mm tires that they were designed around.

Steve in Peoria
Dave noted that you get to 32 mm rene herse quality tire and it is about even...but it depends your weight and other factors
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Old 05-20-23, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sikociek
Wow, that's a really nice bike.
Thank you! UPS delivered it today.
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Old 05-20-23, 08:21 PM
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Good deal we anxiously await more about this one!!
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Old 05-20-23, 08:59 PM
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Wow pics??
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Old 05-20-23, 10:31 PM
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I think that the forks...er, ah, the stays...are bent!

Oh yeah, other than that...beautiful bike!
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