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Experience with Bike Packing Shipping Damage Costs 2023

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Experience with Bike Packing Shipping Damage Costs 2023

Old 05-20-23, 07:09 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
looks to me like something went thru the box in the middle.

I'd almost suspect that was deliberate. Somebody working late just mess up some stuff with the fork lift.

What condition is the bike in ? It looks like it was pretty well packed.

UPS absolutely does not give a S__T

/markp
Most of what I was going to say has been covered, especially by the former UPS employee, but it's important to reiterate for anyone who ships anything. This isn't even close to being well packed. It's loose metal parts dropped in what is obviously a used and likely already compromised box that doesn't appear designed for reuse. If you wouldn't knock your package off of a four or five foot shelf and not worry about, or stack a couple of thousand pounds of packages on top of it, especially the narrow edge, without worry, it's not well packed. If you want reasonable assurance a package will be handled without a conveyor system, pack it well, then band it to a pallet and ship it as freight (though I'd find this more risky overall based on observation). Large shippers might waive rights to file damage claims in exchange for discounts or to be permitted to ship poorly prepared items, so the way new products arrive isn't always a good example of what's OK.
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Old 05-20-23, 07:12 AM
  #27  
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Obviously I get my boxes from the LBS. For all the complaining of damage I tend to hear in this forum, I don't hear it from them. They receive a couple hundred bikes every year. Onesies twosies everyday from UPS, FedEx. The way bike manufacturers pack bikes is much more minimal than the "recommendations (including my own)" on this forum. Saves them money. They do have it so the bike and parts do not move in the box. Yet the $10k+ bikes are sitting there just pristine. Assploding crabon fiber. Go figure.

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Old 05-20-23, 07:34 AM
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it makes one think twice about shipping a valuable bike.

Brian Baylis used to take the fork off and (after padding) tape it along the seat stays.

the heavy pipe insulation and blocking the fork and rear stays - of course.

another thought - get TWO boxes. after packing - take the 2nd box and cut the sides off and run the flat cardboard down the inside of the box to provide a double wall.

I also cut a strip of that is the width of the box, about 3-4 feet long, roll it up and put it inside the main triangle to provide re-inforcement.

if you care about the bike don't scrimp on insurance and use 2 day shipping - not cheapest way.

but it's still a crapshoot.

/markp
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Old 05-20-23, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by iab
Obviously I get my boxes from the LBS. For all the complaining of damage I tend to hear in this forum, I don't hear it from them. They receive a couple hundred bikes every year. Onesies twosies everyday from UPS, FedEx. The way bike manufacturers pack bikes is much more minimal than the "recommendations (including my own)" on this forum. Saves them money. They do have it so the bike and parts do not move in the box. Yet the $10k+ bikes are sitting there just pristine. Assploding crabon fiber. Go figure.
corrugated cardboard Does weaken with use. Account for that and reinforcement can mitigate the loss of strength.

a distributor will be shipping no doubt a number of bike boxes at one time, so that total group of boxes does help, a standard UPS delivery truck is not making a dozen bike pick up.
‘I don’t know where the numbers cross over now but way back, over 10 bikes at once would be where a shipment went cheapest by truck. I recall unloading those, made one wish there was a dock high loading dock.
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Old 05-20-23, 07:42 AM
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Let's game out a total loss scenario. You pack and ship with all due care and best shop practice.

You ship the bike with a reputable carrier insured for full value (Let's say $5000)

Item is totally destroyed in shipping - run over by a train. Whatever.

You make an insurance claim. Insurance pays off, you have the $5000 which you now must refund to your buyer who did not get the bike they purchased.

now you have no bike, and no money for the bike you sold.

am I thinking about this the right way ? Double insurance to indemnify both counterparties ? "Fully securitized transaction" is what the financial services industry calls it.

/markp
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Old 05-20-23, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
Let's game out a total loss scenario. You pack and ship with all due care and best shop practice.

You ship the bike with a reputable carrier insured for full value (Let's say $5000)

Item is totally destroyed in shipping - run over by a train. Whatever.

You make an insurance claim. Insurance pays off, you have the $5000 which you now must refund to your buyer who did not get the bike they purchased.

now you have no bike, and no money for the bike you sold.

am I thinking about this the right way ? Double insurance to indemnify both counterparties ? "Fully securitized transaction" is what the financial services industry calls it.

/markp
where did the $5k that the buyer paid go?
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Old 05-20-23, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SirLeaflock
Most of what I was going to say has been covered, especially by the former UPS employee, but it's important to reiterate for anyone who ships anything. This isn't even close to being well packed. It's loose metal parts dropped in what is obviously a used and likely already compromised box that doesn't appear designed for reuse. If you wouldn't knock your package off of a four or five foot shelf and not worry about, or stack a couple of thousand pounds of packages on top of it, especially the narrow edge, without worry, it's not well packed. If you want reasonable assurance a package will be handled without a conveyor system, pack it well, then band it to a pallet and ship it as freight (though I'd find this more risky overall based on observation). Large shippers might waive rights to file damage claims in exchange for discounts or to be permitted to ship poorly prepared items, so the way new products arrive isn't always a good example of what's OK.
UPS destroys packages and now I understand why

I've had much better shipping results with Fedex.

If a bike is packed exactly as the original Mfg packed it and it gets damaged, the shipper is at fault.
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Old 05-20-23, 08:18 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by repechage
corrugated cardboard Does weaken with use. Account for that and reinforcement can mitigate the loss of strength.

a distributor will be shipping no doubt a number of bike boxes at one time, so that total group of boxes does help, a standard UPS delivery truck is not making a dozen bike pick up.
‘I don’t know where the numbers cross over now but way back, over 10 bikes at once would be where a shipment went cheapest by truck. I recall unloading those, made one wish there was a dock high loading dock.
I'm only sharing my experience with my LBS, nothing more. While they might get a shipment on 3 or 4 bikes on occasion, it is the exception, not the rule. The UPS/FedEx truck that delivers to them is not packed any different than the truck that delivers to me or you.

Also, corrugate on breaks down when it's structure breaks down. The one time shipping from the manufacturer to my LBS is not going to cause that, so I'm confident the second time when I ship, it's fine. Yes, one would hope when a seller ships they don't use a crappy box, but it is very apparent when a box is crappy. Again, this ain't rocket science, protect surfaces from rubbing, make sure nothing moves in the box. Catastrophic handling damage is the exception, not the rule.
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Old 05-20-23, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
where did the $5k that the buyer paid go?
ah, you got me. Forgot about that !

thanks

/markp
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Old 05-20-23, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sd5782
Retired recently from 42 years at UPS. I often see these posts and try to educate people. Yes workers can be careless, but the biggest problem is the whole system. Most of it is automated to eliminate costly worker handling. Odd sized packages like a bike box or tv box or buckets or tires or any other “irregulars” don’t travel on the belts as it wouldn’t work. These odd packages are hand moved more, but move around buildings on articulated train cars. They also travel this way with other odd things. Many of these irregulars are metal items.

The stuff falls against each other. The bike box falls off the train and gets jammed against a building support post while the train is still moving. Perhaps a leaf spring falls on it etc, etc. Realistically the system is not designed for these type of boxes and that is why the cost are such. Fork lifts are not used to move anything except empty pallets in the building I was at. It is the equipment and the system that causes 95% of the damage. I have a bike for sale here but won’t ship, as I know what kind of packaging is needed for the best odds of making it. The packaging for the op was not up to par. 75% of the time that would be good enough I would guess but not good enough for me.

I have written these kind of posts previously more as an educational exercise and not as an excuse. The workers see thousands of packages a day, and usually wouldn’t take the extra energy to go out of the way to destroy something. What kind of joy would it be, and it would get boring pretty quickly. Search here to see the packaging some members have done. Look at how big screen TVs are packed. I have always said that the best insurance is good packaging. That being said, I don’t ship bikes.
I really appreciate this post as I think it clarifies a lot of what I was trying to say and I agree with everything in this post. By the fundamental nature of how "irregulars" are handled, they are at risk. Because of that, they require not "good" ("75% of the time that would be good enough") packaging but very good packaging, and some luck. What I was trying to say in previous posts is I am in agreement with the OP that based on the realities of packaging requirements, cost and risk, my personal calculation is "I don't ship Bikes".
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Old 05-20-23, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by iab
Nice idea. I just keep the pipe insulation "long" off the top tube & stays. You have 3 layers of it for the top of the seat tube. And I just use a continuous piece on the top tube, around the head tube, down the down tube, up the seat tube. No cutting, saves time.
Tx, I've had several bikes come to me that had 2-3 layers of pipe insulation on those contact points that obviously took a hard hit or bounce and dinged the upper HS cup, seat lug point, etc.

Luckily none were catastrophic but could have been, none of my packed ones will suffer such a fate without a much bigger hit that will probably do a lot of damage anyway.
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