Help with Frame identification.
 

I bought this from a post on my Local Craigslist but am unsure what I have. The quality of the materials and workmanship appear top tier. Besides the brakes and (removed by me) crankset it features a nearly full Campy component spec. The Shimano 600 headset with a few extra spacers makes me wonder if the fork has been replaced however its construction appears to match the frame pretty well. While thick the white paint looks pretty good but the green head tube panel does not, logos that once adorned the bottom tube have been crudely removed. The letters “ VC” can be seen under the green paint on the head tube.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3724d7c2d.jpeg
Seat post raised to enable mounting in a repair stand.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d07b2730.jpeg
Campy Dropouts
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aeebf48dc.jpeg
Very nicely done seat stay bridge and cable guides.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0d2631484.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4089ab650.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...929ba5648.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...682307a92.jpeg
Looks like a serial number under thick paint somewhere.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...010e021db.jpeg
Dura Ace brakes and 600 levers, possibly later additions? “VC” visible under the paint. Tall headset spacer stack.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...741fec3bf.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0d79efb2.jpeg
Very impressed by this fork crown casting.


27.2 post, English BB threads 126 rear spacing.

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the combination of all the braze-ons paired with long dropouts suggests a particular moment in time...assuming finish original

note details such as domed taper tube ends, stamped chain stay stop and undimpled chain stays

Britain and Belgium are two possible national origins

if finish taken to be original a date between 1976 and 1978 might be in order

possible rear spacing may have been reset to the present 126

brake centres appear to be 52mm rather than 47mm


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There is one detail that would make me suspect some of the braze ons to be latter additions: the inclusion of a clamp stop just behind the shifter boss braze ons.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...656e27a62.jpeg

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it is beginning to look like a Belgian national origin

the combination of the chainstay stop and bridges had me leaning that way

now with this pentagonal so-slide pibb Britain is pretty much ruled out

the pentagon is very common on French products, which can be ruled out in this case due to threading, but is also employed some in Belgium, it is generally not employed in Britain

perhaps one of our low countries experts will see a combination of features they recognise...

fabiofarelli Italuminium JaccoW ​​​​​​​ LucasHartong ​​​​​​​ non-fixie

the combination of long dropouts & 52mm brake centres together with the new information that some of the braze-ons are post-manufacture additions moves things back into the earlier seventies for a frame birthday

original rear spacing is likely to have been 120mm

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No bells ringing with me so far, alas.

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shocked, am simply shocked! :eek:

what about the letters VC on the bicycle's head tube, does this make you think of a brand, shop or personage?


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I really don't know what this could be, The C in VC could be 'Cycles'. If that's true is't probably not French or French Belgian but English.

But it could also be Vélo Cwhatever as well, no?

Ha ha, thank you, I did not think about that. True.

Velo Cycles ...

How about . . . Bob Jackson? Compare to this 1977 in unaltered* state: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57618657366863
Seems to coordinate in most respects that I can see, except that mine has no braze-on cable guides on the BB -- so maybe 1978 or so.
*Well, the photos of it at first link are in "pre-altered" state, though it's altered a bit now: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57627515256413

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WOW! :thumb:

even the chain stay stop, both bridges and no-slide pibb match! :eek:

fine work. :)



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It's too easy if you have one in-house ("Hmm, why does that look familiar, I'm sure I've seen it someplace . . ." ;-) You guys who are walking bike encyclopedias amaze me.

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;)

was thinking "Charles must be drinking the same water as MauriceMoss "

quite surprised to see that JRJ was putting out road frames with only two small braze-ons as late as 1977


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Here is a thread I started a dozen years ago about my 1977 frame (embarrassed to admit it's still hanging up gathering dust).
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...enovation.html
FWIW, it looks to me that this thread's subject frame has a serial number on the BB shell underside, where the serial (12470) on mine is, so that's a gauge, since BJ did at least use sequential numbering, though no "date code" I'm aware of. BITD BJ would look up in their book when your serial number was, and tell you that much. I don't know if the current owners (Woodrup) still have that info. I do have a set of "original" black letter with gold outlining BJ logotype decals for a frame of that vintage, some of the last the shop had (they'd moved on to the later slanted letter logo many years before) if OP is interested in a "recreation".
When having the frame repainted (locally), the rear brake bridge was replaced with a more modern version with a larger "knuckle" -- my instruction was to unbraze the (slightly crooked) existing one and re-fit/re-braze it, but my esteemed (not being sarcastic) bike surgeon decided to "improve" on it. Other than that, all I added was a set of water bottle braze-ons, since I don't like the bands on the old ones, and I do like chromed band-on brake housing and derailleur cable fittings.
I've attached a couple BJ catalog bits and bobs from 1976 and 1978 (one JPG, one PDF, different years). My frame, and I suspect OP's too, are the lower-end-but still quite satisfactory Gran Prix model, not the deluxe "Nuovo Olympus" (or Olympiad).

If you want to see a really swish BJ "Olympus" frame, do check out Stronglight's Flickr album here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/strong...57606749255200
It has the same black-gold decals mentioned above, on orange.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8210872088.jpg

Wow I am very grateful for the information and so quickly at that, I’ll have to post better pictures and more details soon as I plan on taking it apart. I love Disraeli Gears and really enjoy your thoughts and experience covering a large variety of gear changers.

I have a Bob Jackson Tourer that I commute to work on nearly ever day.

It looks like I got my moneys worth here as I only paid $100 for it.

I'm not that Disraeli Gears, no huge derailleur collection! I've just always loved the joke that became the album title.

I was thinking "British" at first, and mostly due to that "cut-down" fork crown which rang a bell with a handful of Brit marques...but nothing as specific as BJ (for me).
So who make this crown BJ/Bikecology was calling "Rake 16": was it Haden or...?

Too funny,

I took some simple green to the bottom bracket shell and am able to make out the serial number “11660”.

I've always thought that the Rake 16 thing referred to the geometry of the fork (blades). The lugset on the Gran Prix is called "Italia" and that, so far as I know, was a Prugnat style. Of course, in the PDF I've posted, it says that the lugset on the (1978) Olympus was Haden, thinner than the Italia? But Stronglight says Prugnat Professional in his description of the orange BJ mentioned above. The fork crown, it seems to me, is the same on Stronglight's orange BJ and my Gran Prix (though his has the tangs on the insides of the blades), and for some reason I thought it was a Bocama, though I can't find a photo of a crown profiled on the outside like the BJs. Certainly the semi-sloping top profile looks like Bocama's, and maybe the BJ shop did that particular decolletage themselves.

I'll venture a guess, then, that your frame is a Bob Jackson somewhere between Stronglight's (starting 10) and mine (starting 12), and that it's a deluxe model with the windowed lugs. As to the spacers on the headset, notice that Stronglight's has some too, on a Campagnolo Record headset, which has a healthy stack. So the fork, I would say, is original to the frame.

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crown note -

yes, BOCAMA does offer a similar pattern

theirs is not flat on the front and back the way the subject crown is

this makes me suspect subject crown is likely to be a Haden product

am weak on Haden documents so am unable put model names to their products

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0d79efb2.jpeg

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My weak brain had me thinking British at first glance with the wrapover SS caps but would never have ventured a guess based on what little I actually know. :twitchy:

Little things like that have never stopped ME from guessing!
:p

Yep, wouldn't normally let it stop me either, not sure what happened here. :roflmao2: