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Appaloosa upgrade?

Old 05-26-23, 08:10 PM
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Appaloosa upgrade?

My current camper/tourer is a ‘89 Panasonic Mountain Cat. A double butted Infinity Tange frame.
Made some upgrades to the original parts- Al bars. Al seatpost. White Industries hub-wheelset. Then a Kasi dyno & SuperNova lights.
With rack & fenders it tips the scale at about 37lbs. About 3lbs heavier than my RockHopper with a similar setup. Maybe it’s the heavy duty Pletscher rack.

I’m trying to talk myself out of buying an Appaloosa. Added a couple of RivBike images.

i suspect I’ll need a 54cm Appaloosa. TT is longer than my PanaKat(which is ST 53/TT 58cm)
The 57cm Appa has a 62cm TT. That’ll be way too long.

Besides- larger wheels; longer chain stay; stunning paint & lugs; cool fork….
-what else am I upgrading?
Seems little like I’m buying what I got.

Not sure if I should post this in the Touring section or frame builders- but figure this group appreciates the aesthetics.

Any feedback is appreciated- especially talking me out of spending the money! (It’s mostly funded through a little unexpected cash from a work patent)

cheers



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Old 05-26-23, 08:21 PM
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This may be the wrong forum for talking you out of buying. I don't own a riv but darn that looks nice.
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Old 05-26-23, 08:25 PM
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The first rule of thumb in my book = Once rolling, frame weight is a consideration of secondary importance. I reduce tire/tube weight for ease&speed improvement over paved and light gravel. And (for me) it increases the responsiveness of my steering. But that does not seem to be your trend. . For hills&mountains it is about gearing for me - from a Cascade Mts perspective, and that looks covered on each bike.

Nice bikes, enjoy them as they are.

A lesson I learned from PCT (Pac Crest Trail) hikers - as a forest ranger - in WA around Snoqualmie = less is more.

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Old 05-27-23, 07:41 AM
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Very different beasts, price is the only thing I could chat about as a negative. I'm sure the Panasonic is great MTB set up for tour. The riv is more tour than trail.

Your setup and style of need the Riv looks like a good match.

the other suggestion I have is take the spare cash and use that for 'time' with your significant other.
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Old 05-27-23, 07:58 AM
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I've never seen an Appaloosa in person, but have always loved the look of the forks on those. I do, however, have an Atlantis and it is a great candidate for a tourer, but be prepared that the Appaloosa is likely just as heavy. It is an ok trail rider.
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Old 05-27-23, 08:17 AM
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If you have an itch you should scratch it.
YOLO.
Something about regrets and the paths not taken.

But your bike looks great. And man those Rivs are just getting longer and longer, aren't they?
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Old 05-27-23, 08:26 AM
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Also, great fender lines on your bikes.
A mud flap on the front fender keeps one's feet much drier and drivetrain a bit cleaner.
I forego the rear flap - as I am often the slower rider no one follows.

Mine looks 100% kludged, but still functions just as well. Checking your machines, yours will be nicer.

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Old 05-27-23, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
This may be the wrong forum for talking you out of buying. I don't own a riv but darn that looks nice.
Unless the OP posted here to be talked into (and not out of) buying a bike . . .

The Riv does look good.
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Old 05-27-23, 11:46 AM
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Just curious (pic from Riv's Appaloosa page) - is this just a fancy way of saying "4130 chromoly"?
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Old 05-27-23, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
Just curious (pic from Riv's Appaloosa page) - is this just a fancy way of saying "4130 chromoly"?
Yes but it's butted and it's the whole instead of tres Tubi. I'm sure it's a good frameset.
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Old 05-28-23, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
Just curious (pic from Riv's Appaloosa page) - is this just a fancy way of saying "4130 chromoly"?
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Old 05-28-23, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Excellent comparison.
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Old 05-28-23, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion;[url=tel:22903968
22903968[/url]]Just curious (pic from Riv's Appaloosa page) - is this just a fancy way of saying "4130 chromoly"?
I’ve only read up a little on how different percentages of chromium/ magnesium/manganese affect strength and cycle life. There’s also heat treatment and all that.
Probably Grant P keeps a focus on long term life- toughness and stress/strain cycles- which I would guess impacts weight.
So is it 4130? Probably really close.

Originally Posted by gugie;[url=tel:22905169
a friend of mine put a line in one of his songs:
”Last night I dreamt I bought a bicycle just like mine.
What is it about people never being satisfied?”

… I just need to think of my Panasonic at Toasted…

Any-way! Looking at the presale for Appaloosas, 57cm is shown as sold out!!
could be the decision is made for me.

…. What y’all think of that Crust FloridaMan!!🤨🤔😉

—-
i do appreciate the feedback. I’ll follow up with how things shake out.
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Old 05-29-23, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mrv
My current camper/tourer is a ‘89 Panasonic Mountain Cat. A double butted Infinity Tange frame.
Made some upgrades to the original parts- Al bars. Al seatpost. White Industries hub-wheelset. Then a Kasi dyno & SuperNova lights.
With rack & fenders it tips the scale at about 37lbs. About 3lbs heavier than my RockHopper with a similar setup. Maybe it’s the heavy duty Pletscher rack.

I’m trying to talk myself out of buying an Appaloosa. Added a couple of RivBike images.

i suspect I’ll need a 54cm Appaloosa. TT is longer than my PanaKat(which is ST 53/TT 58cm)
The 57cm Appa has a 62cm TT. That’ll be way too long.

Besides- larger wheels; longer chain stay; stunning paint & lugs; cool fork….
-what else am I upgrading?
Seems little like I’m buying what I got.

Not sure if I should post this in the Touring section or frame builders- but figure this group appreciates the aesthetics.

Any feedback is appreciated- especially talking me out of spending the money! (It’s mostly funded through a little unexpected cash from a work patent)

cheers



It's a struggle to commit to the first Riv purchase. The fancy lugwork and paint jobs get everybody's attention, but the geometry and the ride quality is what keeps us on them. I bought a Hunqapillar and a year later HAD to get a Sam Hillborne. They are my favorites of the 6 bikes I own.

Marc
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Old 05-30-23, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mrv
I’ve only read up a little on how different percentages of chromium/ magnesium/manganese affect strength and cycle life. There’s also heat treatment and all that.
Probably Grant P keeps a focus on long term life- toughness and stress/strain cycles- which I would guess impacts weight.
So is it 4130? Probably really close.



a friend of mine put a line in one of his songs:
”Last night I dreamt I bought a bicycle just like mine.
What is it about people never being satisfied?”

… I just need to think of my Panasonic at Toasted…

Any-way! Looking at the presale for Appaloosas, 57cm is shown as sold out!!
could be the decision is made for me.

…. What y’all think of that Crust FloridaMan!!🤨🤔😉

—-
i do appreciate the feedback. I’ll follow up with how things shake out.
I would get a nor'easter.
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Old 06-14-23, 10:27 AM
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Wrap up….

…for now.
Contacted the bike fit pro about recommending a size and getting a bottle of Gunnar grenade green from Mr. Schwinn before the doors close at Waterford.
The assistant got me the contact info, and the pricey paint arrived promptly. No word back on bike fit recommendations…

So while I wasn’t looking, I picked up a SteamRoller project bike. I never know how these things happen…

I’m thinking I figure out. Riv-size, get stuff sold & thinned out, and be ready for the next presale.

…and get this rolling!



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Old 06-14-23, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie
"Marketing is about happiness."
4130 happiness is what Riv is muchly about.
Maybe the better tubing for 50 - 53.5cm chainstays, on loaded bikes in the offroad backcountry.

Good marketing is better than reducing selling prices.

As an alternative - custom frame, for a bit less, with a few modern upgrades. Painted your way.
Here's a Washington State builder.
HOME - Curtlo Cycles

Rivendell is the best reason to go with a custom frame from a local builder. IMHO

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Old 06-14-23, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
"Marketing is about happiness."
4130 happiness is what Riv is muchly about.
Maybe the better tubing for 50 - 53.5cm chainstays, on loaded bikes in the offroad backcountry.

Good marketing is better than reducing selling prices.

As an alternative - custom frame, for a bit less, with a few modern upgrades. Painted your way.
Here's a Washington State builder.
HOME - Curtlo Cycles

Rivendell is the best reason to go with a custom frame from a local builder. IMHO
$1500 for a TIG welded frame, no fork, single color powerder coat. (Completes seemed to be around $2100 ~ $3000) -- couldn't figure out if they were doing canti-brakes, but I gotta think one could order it custom. Didn't see fork pricing, so not sure if one is stuck with carbon. I'm sure they are great.
vs.
$1750 for a lugged frameset with two color wet paint (i think this include bottom bracket and headset) -- sometimes RivBike has completes available for $2500 ~ $3500

I think I'm stuck in the RivCult. And I do have a GUNNAR CrossHairs - tig welded single color wet paint (which I had slightly customized by a BikeFitMI in Ann Arbor). Just hope I don't break the GUNNAR frame now that Waterford's Mr. Schwinn is retiring.
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Old 06-14-23, 12:06 PM
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Nothing wrong with a Riv.
I never called it a cult, even after having 2 long conversations w the founder.
GP is definitely a valid point of view, esp in the casual off roading world.
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Old 06-14-23, 12:22 PM
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Do standard length chains fit on bikes with 53cm chainstays? and crankset of 50/34.
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Old 06-14-23, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
Do standard length chains fit on bikes with 53cm chainstays? and crankset of 50/34.
I don't think so. I know I've read on the site that the step through frames, Platypus and Clem, have chainstays long enough two chains are needed (or a chain and a half ...).
I suspect a 50/43 would only be offered up on the fancy road bike, like the Rodeo, or maybe the Roadini.

I got to thinking.... if you have a super long chain, would it last longer? hmmmm.....
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Old 06-14-23, 02:01 PM
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Just curious; does Riv still build custom framesets?
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Old 06-14-23, 02:42 PM
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or you could save for a while more and go for broke and get custom

Appaloosa $1750

Kirk basic custom $4000 Full Custom | Kirk Frameworks

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Old 06-14-23, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
As an alternative - custom frame, for a bit less, with a few modern upgrades. Painted your way.
Here's a Washington State builder.
HOME - Curtlo Cycles
FWIW, I had Doug build me a custom Epic Mountaineer back in 2003. I think the frame and rear shock was about $1500 or so. At the time it was the best value custom handbuilt frame on the internets I could find. It is a stunningly beautiful fillet brazed frame of True Temper OXIII Platinum tubing. I've been riding it for 20 years now with absolutely no regrets whatsoever. Best 3.5K I've ever spent.

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Old 06-14-23, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Writenride
Just curious; does Riv still build custom framesets?
Kinda sorta. Customs under the "Rivendell" name no longer seem to be on the website. However, the Rodeo is now "made to order," or so it says here.

As far as the OP's question, I see two main differences the Appaloosa would give you over the Panasonic: a significantly longer chain stay/wheelbase and a sloping top tube. Either can be desirable or undesirable depending on your point of view.

The longer wheelbase will give you a bike that wants to keep going in a straight line, all else being equal. Bad for a crit racer, fantastic for a loaded tourer, at least on the road. I don't ride off-road, so I can't comment on whether the looong wheelbase is a good or bad thing there - I can see an argument for either.

The sloping top tube makes a bit easier to throw a leg over the top tube to mount or dismount. On a loaded tourer with panniers front and back and sleeping bag, tent, ground pad and whatever else on top of the rear panniers (thusmaking throwing the leg over horse-mounting style much more difficult, especially for those of us of a certain age), the bit lower top tube is a nice thing. Not essential, but nice - hey, every little bit helps.
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