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Early Italian Masi GC

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Early Italian Masi GC

Old 08-28-23, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
The frameset - as some point out - might hail from '71 or '73, but many components look later than that.
'Patent' brakes, post-'75 front derailleur, newer pedals and wheels.
Likely required replacement bits after fishing it out from the bottom of a lake.
Good luck with refurbishing. It will take lot$ of patience and effort.
1973? Please explain that.
parts is parts and subject to exchange.
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Old 08-28-23, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
1973? Please explain that.
parts is parts and subject to exchange.
In the OP's first narrative, he mentioned the patent 73 RD.
The hodgepodge assortment does not bother me in the slightest.
I personally think he should restore such a rarity to its original glory.
But he can feel free to alter it in any manner of his choosing.
Spread the rear to 130 and install the latest SRAM, for all I care.
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Old 08-28-23, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
That frame deserves derusting.
‘the problems are with the seat stays and fork.
small vents.
if Brian Baylis was going to send this out for fresh fork chrome, he would drill a .090” vent at the blade reinforcements, only way to expect any kind of flush.
he would polish the fork himself before returning for plating after chrome removal.
make sure that the fork was flushed properly, provided syringes for that purpose and make sure baked to avoid hydrogen embrittlement.
‘Overkill? Ask @bikingshearer
On the seat stays…. You are on your own.
I have no idea what you're talking about.

I had not mentioned it before, but the fork of which you speak was drilled when it was rechromed exactly as and where you suggest. That suggests to me that the bulk of the damage had already been done to the fork blade prior to the rechrome and was just a timebomb waiting to go off. I and my teeth are very glad it did not go off when I was bombing down a 2+ mile descent a half hour before I discovered the fatal crack.
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Old 08-28-23, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
I have no idea what you're talking about.

I had not mentioned it before, but the fork of which you speak was drilled when it was rechromed exactly as and where you suggest. That suggests to me that the bulk of the damage had already been done to the fork blade prior to the rechrome and was just a timebomb waiting to go off. I and my teeth are very glad it did not go off when I was bombing down a 2+ mile descent a half hour before I discovered the fatal crack.
we live in so much danger.
the trap was set at the original plating.
‘with ONE petit vent at the onset and questionable rinsing of the flux inside after the brazing…
a witch’s brew of mischeif to come.

I am referencing on replatimg of a fork. My first order of business is to add a vent hole and first hot water rinse- saving the wast water and see what exits.
then derust, various commercial solutions around.
rinse again and monitor the waste water. I have a business neighbor with a vacuum chamber, vacuum will boil off the water.
clean and get the chrome mostly removed, keeping in mind that Columbus is a version of chromoly.
sand, and polish like a knife maker would.
‘then to the chromer.
return to me after every step, like Art Stump had done, I will buff.
Then plate, cook in the time window, in other words don’t drop the fork off on a Friday afternoon.

now, if I find lots of gunk rinsed out before visiting the plater, it is getting paint, it will be clean and that is that.

‘’the guys at the back of the plating shop are not the high pay workers. Corners can be cut.
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Old 08-28-23, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer
I have no idea what you're talking about.

I had not mentioned it before, but the fork of which you speak was drilled when it was rechromed exactly as and where you suggest. That suggests to me that the bulk of the damage had already been done to the fork blade prior to the rechrome and was just a timebomb waiting to go off. I and my teeth are very glad it did not go off when I was bombing down a 2+ mile descent a half hour before I discovered the fatal crack.
Yep, that was a sobering thread - glad you dodged a bullet there. Just curious if you checked to see if you could hear any loose crud or rust debris rattling around in the other blade after the first drop-out broke off. Thinking of your thread, I’ve been thumping and shaking this fork and it “sounds” solid. I know someone who tests corrosion in tanks and piping and maybe he’ll have an idea of how to check it.

Thanks again for all of the input.

For reference, I have been studying the Richard Sachs article mentioned by repechage .
https://www.campyonly.com/retrobikes/sachs_masi.html

The frame has gotta be earlier than ‘73. The head tube decal is the earliest design and the BB cut outs pre-date the M. I snagged the photos below from an article posted on the Bob Hovey site that show a GC of about the same vintage as mine. Fluted seat stay caps shown in a photo published in March 1971. The pedals shown look like the ones that came with this bike. The ‘73 patent RD must be replacement or the frame was built up later. the Unicanitor #3 saddle (should be a suede #2 I think) has a tag from the Ace Bike shop in Vancouver. I’ll post up photos of the other components but they look more or less right, except for the wheels, according to the Richard Sachs article.

Bicycling

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Old 08-28-23, 04:40 PM
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That was from a magazine- they get edited.

I would go to the source-

https://richardsachs.com/period-correct-2/
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Old 08-28-23, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I am not as much of an expert (repechage) as a lot of those who contribute here , but that headset race looks like it is done. That appears to be some sort of fatigue, the likes of which I haven't seen. It could be that a P.O. beat it in with a hammer my shade tree method is a block of Teflon or wood , and it doesn't take much to install.
Looking at it from inside the head tube, it looks like it has been pounded out before - maybe using a screw driver or chisel
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Old 08-28-23, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by majmt
Yep, that was a sobering thread - glad you dodged a bullet there. Just curious if you checked to see if you could hear any loose crud or rust debris rattling around in the other blade after the first drop-out broke off.
Yes, there are little bits of pixie dust tinkling around in the still-intact blade. Considering the offending blade is now in three pieces and I won't ever be riding that fork again, it is no longer an issue.
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Old 08-28-23, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by majmt
Looking at it from inside the head tube, it looks like it has been pounded out before - maybe using a screw driver or chisel
Campagnolo has a tool for that.
Park too
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Old 08-29-23, 07:39 AM
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"Patina" is just an over-used euphemism for a rusty, chipped up, trashed and abused "finish." The only "story" it tells is about someone who didn't treat their bike very well. Shameful.
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Old 12-07-23, 05:00 PM
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On Gran Criteriums without a Faliero decal on the top tube

About early Gran Criteriums with no Faliero decal – I’ve seen five Masi Gran Criteriums with original paint, first-generation GC decals, and NO Faliero signature decal on the top tube.

The first frame has what appears to be a Masi Special fork (eyelets), no date stamp, scalloped seat stay caps, and a four port bottom bracket cut out. The frame is badly rusted.

One frame has a date stamp of 7-70, flat seat stay caps, and a six port bottom bracket.

The last three have a date stamp of 10-70, scalloped seat stay caps, and six port bottom brackets.
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Old 12-07-23, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MyOldBikes
About early Gran Criteriums with no Faliero decal – I’ve seen five Masi Gran Criteriums with original paint, first-generation GC decals, and NO Faliero signature decal on the top tube.

The first frame has what appears to be a Masi Special fork (eyelets), no date stamp, scalloped seat stay caps, and a four port bottom bracket cut out. The frame is badly rusted.

One frame has a date stamp of 7-70, flat seat stay caps, and a six port bottom bracket.

The last three have a date stamp of 10-70, scalloped seat stay caps, and six port bottom brackets.
I have an original paint Masi with no signature. I am very sure, I picked it up at the plant new. I laughed to myself once as a self styled expert insisted it was a respray due to the placement of the head tube herald, best description is that the midpoint of the WC band arc was placed at the midpoint of the head tube.
There are no absolutes, you are correct.
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Old 12-08-23, 05:22 PM
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it is a Masi of this vintage that was restored by Richard Sachs in the late 90s and makes comments about the transfers and hand worksmanship in his article "Period Correct"

Period Correct - Richard Sachs Cycles

it was that article that got me started on the vintage bike thing.

the Masi in question is going to require quite a lot more than a respray to put it into a condition where you'd be proud to present it.

but that's just my opinion.

/markip
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Old 12-09-23, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MyOldBikes
About early Gran Criteriums with no Faliero decal – I’ve seen five Masi Gran Criteriums with original paint, first-generation GC decals, and NO Faliero signature decal on the top tube.

The first frame has what appears to be a Masi Special fork (eyelets), no date stamp, scalloped seat stay caps, and a four port bottom bracket cut out. The frame is badly rusted.

One frame has a date stamp of 7-70, flat seat stay caps, and a six port bottom bracket.

The last three have a date stamp of 10-70, scalloped seat stay caps, and six port bottom brackets.
Thanks for that info, I was wondering if the lack of a signature transfer was peculiar. With all of the precise framework, attention to detail, and placement of every other decal, how could they forget or omit the signature?

I haven’t had time to do much with this bike yet but I’m really reluctant to re-paint. It’s those early first gen decals - originally applied in Italy over 50 years ago and once they’re gone, they’re gone forever. Sure, there are probably reproductions that are even nicer than the originals and some future owner could always go that route. I like the linked narrative from the Bob Hovey site, regarding conservation vs restoration and the comparison of classic bikes to artwork. Who am I to erase the original “brush strokes”? Despite the rust, the frame is sound - no dents, dings, deflection, or deformation at all. None of the components look abused. So, for now, I want to preserve the soul of the bike and do the best that I can to stabilize any corrosion.

Conservation and restoration

I like the Richard Sachs piece but I already have an original GC that looks new from the bike shop and I’d love to see how that one would score in a Concours. I want this new (older) bike to be a rider and not worry about scratching or scraping it.

I did pop the upper bearing race out of the head tube. I found another on eBay, it looks OK and it’s supposed to be NOS but wondering if it’s genuine.
Old vs new.



I also dug up a “Patent 70” RD with amazingly uncracked jockey wheels. I do want to stay “period correct” but I might cheat a bit and modify this to a long-cage that could take up to a 32 tooth cog. I have a later long-cage NR RD that I hope will work as a donor.

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Old 12-09-23, 01:15 PM
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I cannot imagine any reluctance to completely rehabbing and restoring something that has been so neglected and abused in the past. It is currently only a shrine to that neglect, nothing else.
JMO of course
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Old 12-09-23, 01:24 PM
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I have a wonderful Milano GC that I've owned since 78, original paint with a few upgrades, and I still enjoy riding it.

sorry about the camo bar tape. Sacriledge !

never fails to bring a smile. And it's in pretty good shape.

/markp

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Old 12-09-23, 03:00 PM
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Tape does blend with the shrubbery behind a bit.

keeping up the image line-
just back from an early afternoon coffee run.




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Buy a Masi
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Old 12-09-23, 03:39 PM
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Or one from the hometown of Armani


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Old 12-22-23, 01:24 PM
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[QUOTE=majmt;23095496]Thanks for that info, I was wondering if the lack of a signature transfer was peculiar. With all of the precise framework, attention to detail, and placement of every other decal, how could they forget or omit the signature?



My suspicion is that with these early Gran Criteriums that we are talking about, the signature decal for the head tube had not been added to the decal set yet. Masi Specials didn't have signature decals, these early Gran Criteriums didn't have signature decals, but later GCs with the 1st generation decals (and beyond) all have the signature!
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Old 12-22-23, 02:24 PM
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I dig it. Obviously your bike your choice, but I wouldn't repaint. That is the common route. How often do you see a bike like that with paint from the shop? Couple a chips is no thing.
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Old 12-22-23, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by iab
I dig it. …Couple a chips is no thing.
a couple of chips is a continuum. I have an earlier 1974 twin plate GC, original finish. In conversation with Brian Baylis I asked why the paint was so fragile? Turns out Roland brought in some wonder primer/ sealer from another of his businesses. Was used for a while and abandoned by 1975. One reason there are not many original paint 1974 mfg GC’s in original paint.
I have been sitting on this for years. My current plan is to see if I can match the original color and mask off the frame strategically, then paint the troubled regions. If no match can be effected…. Not sure.

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Old 12-23-23, 03:53 AM
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I dig the patina look, would keep it like that. I have lost intrest in every bike i have painted personally and sold them. It would be another run of the mill boring restored masi. Right now it has something it will never have again, original paint, history and uniqueness.
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